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I remember sitting in my young women's class one Sunday with a bookmark-length piece of paper my leaders had passed around resting on my lap. Dotting the top and surrounded by curling filigree were the familiar words "What I Want in a Future Spouse." I wrote down some stupid things, like dark hair and beautiful brown eyes or someone who is tall -- it's really funny to see how preference changes over time -- but then there were more important and personal things, too, some that, as a girl, I don't think I understood fully.
Things like:
"He must honor his Priesthood."
"He must be able to look past my weaknesses."
"He should talk to me about important things."
And then, near the top: "He must be a returned missionary."
I must have written that last one dozens of times, spurred on by well-intending leaders who made sure that we knew the importance of a mission. I'll admit to picturing a handsome young man, home from an international mission with lots of stories and a new-found love of a culture. We'd decorate our first home with flags and native prints and tell our children his stories. That, in my head, is what it would be like.
It's been four years since I left the Young Women's and a lot has changed since then. My list is no longer hair/eye color focused and I've become incredibly picky when it comes to the spiritual things. I, like most people, I'd imagine, regret that I found certain traits so important, and as I get older, I find myself regretting unexpected things.
Namely, I regret that "Returned Missionary" had such an unshakable place on my checklist.
By saying that, I realize full well that I'm stepping into an area of scarlet letters and glaring taboo. It is not socially acceptable where I am from to admit that you're not necessarily looking for an RM. I'd imagine that's the case for most of you reading this as well. A lot of you have sat through Sacrament meetings where proud fathers talk of their sons who have returned from serving "honorable" missions. A few of you, like me, have probably gone on dates with some of these RMs who unintentionally use their missions as social/romantic leverage. It happens a lot.
The question I have is this: what are we really looking for? In all of our searching for a potential spouse, is there something else we need to be focusing on? In my opinion, the answer to that second question is yes.
Truth be told, we've gotten ourselves into a seriously nasty predicament and a very un-Christlike attitude, I'll add, without noticing because we're so focused on the current mission status of the young men in the church. We have a problem, and it's a problem that stems, in part, from a generation of young women who were told "RM or bust" from a very young age. I'm not saying we should completely throw out the idea of dating an RM, but that we shouldn't let that define who we date. We are so consumed with returned missionary status or the lack thereof that we completely disregard what I feel are the most important qualities to seek in a potential spouse: outstanding character and temple worthiness. In doing so, we are marginalizing dozens of worthy young men and sometimes justifying the less-than-honorable actions of the young men considered honorable for serving.
I never realized that this was an issue within LDS culture until I was sitting at Angie's Diner, cleaning "The Sink" with some friends and listening to one describe the dating climate at BYU. She told us of a guy she knew who was perfectly worthy, but hadn't served a mission or only served for a little bit -- I can't quite remember. He was on a date with a girl, and when the mission question came up and he had nothing to say, she reacted as if she'd tasted sour milk. The date was basically done for her at that point, and he was left gutted and wounded. I remember sitting in our little booth and feeling my forgotten ice cream melt on my tongue as I listened, disgusted. That night was a tipping point for me.
These stories didn't just go away after that night -- in fact, I heard many more of them, some affecting incredible young men that I had the chance to interact with through my calling this year. It is no exaggeration whatsoever when I say that these men are the closest to the Savior that I have ever met. That being said, I have listened to their stories and have had a taste of their pain as they have explained why dating is so hard for them, how they were willing to serve a mission and wanted to, but all girls and all anyone, for that matter, ever sees is how they didn't serve or didn't make it through the two years before being sent home. Some of these young men don't even bother dating to avoid the pain of rejection. In the church as a whole, some go completely inactive and don't even bother to try anything. They are consistently hurt by girls like me, and that hurt isn't a mere cut, but a deep wound. Though valiant and temple-worthy and doing all they can to become like the Savior, they are tossed aside because of how they spent or did not spend two years of their lives. The pain of that is something I can only imagine.
It's honestly a little superficial for me to say that my friends' experiences are the "close to home" hitters when it comes to missions. I myself am the product of a temple marriage, not between a girl and what many of us consider a typical RM, but my mother and my father, who came home from the London, South mission early due to medical issues (I'll add that I have met people who would say that that is dishonorable, who would erroneously assume that he got sick because he wasn't righteous enough. They are horribly misled. My dad is one of my greatest examples of strength and testimony.). Luckily for my siblings and I, his sickness, something out of his control, wasn't the issue for my mother, but, rather, whether he could take her to the temple or not. That is what mattered to her, and I am here and can spend eternity with my loved ones because that is what mattered to her and to my dad, too.
To the young women my age, I plead, as President Uchtdorf did, stop it. Use discretion, but righteous discretion. We are quite literally isolating and emotionally abandoning a group of young men who are worthy of and have the desire to be sealed to a spouse, but haven't yet reached that point in their progression because "medical leave" and "wasn't able to serve" have been made into leprous stigmas in LDS dating culture. Dating, though the main focus of this post, isn't even the only sphere where this happens; as communities and wards, we sometimes turn blind eyes toward these young men (and young women, too) who come home early or stay home, as if it burdens us to associate with them or as if we're ashamed to know them. In their moment of dire need, we abandon them merely because we don't want to look bad. The honorable, two-year RM is laudable. Missions change lives and do so much good. But sometimes we use the honorable RM as an image, an idol, if you will, that we cling to and seek in our loved ones and neighbors because we don't want to be judged. This is not only wrong, but incredibly cruel and horribly judgmental itself. It is the exact opposite of Christlike behavior.
The reality of missions is that we maybe set them on too high a pedestal. We know how amazing and life-changing they can be -- that's why we encourage everybody who can to serve and make missionary work a personal responsibility in the church. Missions are incredible things, and if you're willing and able, they can only make you better than you are. But I think we sometimes forget about other important things. A few months ago, I, and a few others, had the opportunity to eat lunch with President Barrington of the Logan, Utah temple presidency. We sat down at our table and talked for a bit, introducing ourselves and such. The conversation, naturally, turned around temple worthiness and preparedness, as well as missionary work. At one point in the conversation, I watched President Barrington's face contort with frustration as we sat over soup and salad.
By saying that, I realize full well that I'm stepping into an area of scarlet letters and glaring taboo. It is not socially acceptable where I am from to admit that you're not necessarily looking for an RM. I'd imagine that's the case for most of you reading this as well. A lot of you have sat through Sacrament meetings where proud fathers talk of their sons who have returned from serving "honorable" missions. A few of you, like me, have probably gone on dates with some of these RMs who unintentionally use their missions as social/romantic leverage. It happens a lot.
The question I have is this: what are we really looking for? In all of our searching for a potential spouse, is there something else we need to be focusing on? In my opinion, the answer to that second question is yes.
Truth be told, we've gotten ourselves into a seriously nasty predicament and a very un-Christlike attitude, I'll add, without noticing because we're so focused on the current mission status of the young men in the church. We have a problem, and it's a problem that stems, in part, from a generation of young women who were told "RM or bust" from a very young age. I'm not saying we should completely throw out the idea of dating an RM, but that we shouldn't let that define who we date. We are so consumed with returned missionary status or the lack thereof that we completely disregard what I feel are the most important qualities to seek in a potential spouse: outstanding character and temple worthiness. In doing so, we are marginalizing dozens of worthy young men and sometimes justifying the less-than-honorable actions of the young men considered honorable for serving.
I never realized that this was an issue within LDS culture until I was sitting at Angie's Diner, cleaning "The Sink" with some friends and listening to one describe the dating climate at BYU. She told us of a guy she knew who was perfectly worthy, but hadn't served a mission or only served for a little bit -- I can't quite remember. He was on a date with a girl, and when the mission question came up and he had nothing to say, she reacted as if she'd tasted sour milk. The date was basically done for her at that point, and he was left gutted and wounded. I remember sitting in our little booth and feeling my forgotten ice cream melt on my tongue as I listened, disgusted. That night was a tipping point for me.
These stories didn't just go away after that night -- in fact, I heard many more of them, some affecting incredible young men that I had the chance to interact with through my calling this year. It is no exaggeration whatsoever when I say that these men are the closest to the Savior that I have ever met. That being said, I have listened to their stories and have had a taste of their pain as they have explained why dating is so hard for them, how they were willing to serve a mission and wanted to, but all girls and all anyone, for that matter, ever sees is how they didn't serve or didn't make it through the two years before being sent home. Some of these young men don't even bother dating to avoid the pain of rejection. In the church as a whole, some go completely inactive and don't even bother to try anything. They are consistently hurt by girls like me, and that hurt isn't a mere cut, but a deep wound. Though valiant and temple-worthy and doing all they can to become like the Savior, they are tossed aside because of how they spent or did not spend two years of their lives. The pain of that is something I can only imagine.
It's honestly a little superficial for me to say that my friends' experiences are the "close to home" hitters when it comes to missions. I myself am the product of a temple marriage, not between a girl and what many of us consider a typical RM, but my mother and my father, who came home from the London, South mission early due to medical issues (I'll add that I have met people who would say that that is dishonorable, who would erroneously assume that he got sick because he wasn't righteous enough. They are horribly misled. My dad is one of my greatest examples of strength and testimony.). Luckily for my siblings and I, his sickness, something out of his control, wasn't the issue for my mother, but, rather, whether he could take her to the temple or not. That is what mattered to her, and I am here and can spend eternity with my loved ones because that is what mattered to her and to my dad, too.
To the young women my age, I plead, as President Uchtdorf did, stop it. Use discretion, but righteous discretion. We are quite literally isolating and emotionally abandoning a group of young men who are worthy of and have the desire to be sealed to a spouse, but haven't yet reached that point in their progression because "medical leave" and "wasn't able to serve" have been made into leprous stigmas in LDS dating culture. Dating, though the main focus of this post, isn't even the only sphere where this happens; as communities and wards, we sometimes turn blind eyes toward these young men (and young women, too) who come home early or stay home, as if it burdens us to associate with them or as if we're ashamed to know them. In their moment of dire need, we abandon them merely because we don't want to look bad. The honorable, two-year RM is laudable. Missions change lives and do so much good. But sometimes we use the honorable RM as an image, an idol, if you will, that we cling to and seek in our loved ones and neighbors because we don't want to be judged. This is not only wrong, but incredibly cruel and horribly judgmental itself. It is the exact opposite of Christlike behavior.
The reality of missions is that we maybe set them on too high a pedestal. We know how amazing and life-changing they can be -- that's why we encourage everybody who can to serve and make missionary work a personal responsibility in the church. Missions are incredible things, and if you're willing and able, they can only make you better than you are. But I think we sometimes forget about other important things. A few months ago, I, and a few others, had the opportunity to eat lunch with President Barrington of the Logan, Utah temple presidency. We sat down at our table and talked for a bit, introducing ourselves and such. The conversation, naturally, turned around temple worthiness and preparedness, as well as missionary work. At one point in the conversation, I watched President Barrington's face contort with frustration as we sat over soup and salad.
"The temple has become nothing more than an item on a checklist for some of these missionaries getting ready to serve," he said, brow furrowed. "But the temple should really be the whole focus." Don't get me wrong, he later said, serving a mission is a great and important thing, but the temple takes priority.
That conversation has been at the back of my mind ever since, in multiple contexts. Is the temple just an item on a checklist to us, whether that checklist be a personal, missionary, or future spouse checklist? Is it just a word on a page? Where is "temple worthiness" on our lists? Where is "the willingness and desire to take me to the temple" when we decide what we want in a companion? Is it below "returned missionary," as if one cannot exist without the other? Does it take less precedence than the mission itself?
That conversation has been at the back of my mind ever since, in multiple contexts. Is the temple just an item on a checklist to us, whether that checklist be a personal, missionary, or future spouse checklist? Is it just a word on a page? Where is "temple worthiness" on our lists? Where is "the willingness and desire to take me to the temple" when we decide what we want in a companion? Is it below "returned missionary," as if one cannot exist without the other? Does it take less precedence than the mission itself?
Too often, I think we misuse the scripture "by their fruits ye shall know them" in the context of missions. We assume that the mission is the fruit, that obviously a young man is good and upstanding and worthy of being married in the temple because he's served two full years. In reality, the mission is more like the climate the fruit has to grow in and fight in, just as the military or life or work or the critical culture of a hometown are the climates that other young men get to fight through. Half the Quorum of the Twelve are perfect examples of fruit flourishing without the aid of a mission. The fruit is simply what a person makes of themselves during and after their experiences.
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| Two things. 1) Stop it, stop it, STOP IT. 2) Tell that to President Monson. |
I feel that we need to stop using "RM" as a status, as a justification, and as a qualification. It is certainly an accomplishment, and in most cases, returned missionaries are outstanding individuals. Lest I be misunderstood, I'm also of the opinion that serving the Lord on a mission is one of the most rewarding things you could do, and you should do it if you get the chance. But let's not forget about those who aren't RMs and let's not judge them. We cannot stigmatize young men (and these days, young women, because trust me -- it happens) who did not serve or only served for a short amount of time. Sometimes that's due to medical, spiritual, physical, or mental reasons that we can't see. For us to assume that they are less than or unworthy is for us to become Pharisees. Would Christ do that? Would he refuse to befriend and support and build a relationship with someone simply because they didn't serve a mission? If you think so, you do not know Christ.
To those young men, who I know are struggling: the Lord knows you. You are so critical to His plan, and He loves you. He never stops loving you. Don't give up.
For me, the phrase "returned missionary" has been replaced by the phrase "someone who is doing his best to become like the Savior," and there are lots of young men doing just that. Temple worthiness and dedication to the Gospel have taken complete priority, as they should. I have had remarkable examples of young men in my life who, though they were unable to give their lives to the Lord on a two year mission, have given their lives to Him anyway and never stopped trying.
We owe them much more than we are giving them.
Follow up: A few of you have commented that the Lord, through His prophets, has asked all worthy young men to serve, and you have expressed your shock that I did not mention that in this post. To that I say that yes, that is what He has asked. A mission is rewarding and beautiful, and it is one way to give back to the Lord, who has given us so much. We are told to serve because His children need us and we need to serve, not because it will make our neighbors think highly of us. I did not write this post to advise young men to break commandments of the Lord, nor did I write it to marginalize what He has asked of us. I wrote this post to advise everyone to keep His most basic commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself.
Ari, you have a gift with words. Thank you for this insightful post. -Taylor
ReplyDeleteThank you, Taylor! That means so much. :)
DeleteThis is why I hate Utah culture. When I first moved to Utah, I went from being the most innocent, modest, and decent Young Woman in my circle of friends (seriously, I had high school teachers compliment me on being such a good example) to the most vulgar, inappropriate heathen whose shirt showed her belly when she stretched both arms in the air (honestly had someone complain first semester of college). You don't run into this crap outside of Utah. Most people actually understand what the atonement does for people. My husband lived in Utah most of his life, and he wasn't active during his teen years because he associated more closely with the non-members, which i guess made him tainted or something. He wasn't worthy to serve a mission when he turned 19, and he didn't care until he was much older and decided he wanted something different in his life. He was working on turning in his papers when I met him, and when he was rejected I married him anyway. In the temple, I might add.
DeleteI'd also like to add that the worst boob grappler I've ever met in my life was a member of the church. And I'd dated non-members before I ever dated a member (didn't really have much of a crop to pick from where I grew up). He went on to serve a mission, hopefully for the right reasons.
I feel the same way. The interesting thing is that I am currently on my second marriage. My first husband was a returned missionary who served an honorable mission. We got sealed in the temple, but I didn't realize until after we got married how much at odds with God he was. He ended up taking all his frustration out on me and stopped going to church which led to a very short-lived marriage. My current husband never went on a mission but has a strong testimony, wishes he had gone, but lives a good and faithful life in the church. We are happily sealed to each other and about to start an eternal family. This is why I hate it when girls say that they have to marry a returned missionary. Sometimes the better husband turns out to be a man who never served, like in my case. It's sometimes not the better choice to marry an RM. My ex-husband had some screwed up beliefs that we didn't agree on, however, my current husband and I have completely matching beliefs. It's because of that reason that I know he is the march for me. I paid attention to his actual beliefs instead of a title, like an RM.
DeleteArianna,
DeleteI think you make many very important and valid points, your references to the nature of young men in general whether one who has served a mission or one who has not served is in fact truth. There are many young men that serve missions because they felt pressured to serve and come home and go through some major life changes and possibly leave the church in search of more worldly "fun". My best friend in fact did that exact thing; and it is true there are many young men that don't serve missions and have never gone astray, or have not done anything that would cause them to lose temple blessings. You see my husband of 25 years did not serve a mission; but he is the kindest sweetest most serving man I know, he has a strong testimony loves the gospel, the lord and his family dearly. Now that being said there are a few things he truly did miss out on by not serving a mission which has had a bit of an impact on our lives. While not serving a mission hasn't made him any less of an awesome husband some key components that a young man can and has the opportunity to learn while on his mission was something my husband missed out on, some of those things could have greatly impacted our marriage in a very positive way; but most importantly the service a young man gives by giving up two years for the lord is in fact full of a lifetime of blessings that we both know in our marriage that we have missed out on. This is not to say everyone will have the same results as we have had, however we have distinct unwavering knowledge that things in our life together would/could have been different if my husband had served his mission. All of this being said - I would like to leave you with a thought that you are right every soul is of great worth, and it should not matter if a mission has been served or not because there are reasons for everything in a persons life. Also, remember to never make a choice for your eternal companion without the direct connection to your Heavenly Father through prayer and a firm answer. That is the most important key because life does happen good and bad and in those bad moments having that confirmation will get you through tough times, as we know everything happens for a reason. I hope that my words have been more help than of hindrance. Keep up the good works you're on the right track.
We should never quickly judge someone or not be a friend to someone because of inability physically, spiritually, mentally to serve a mission. Some of my closest friends were not able to serve/finish their missions. We are all brothers and sisters and are blessed to have the gospel in this dispensation.
DeleteThat being said, I hope my daughters marry an RM. I also hope their future husbands are much more than just RM's. Hard working, kind, consistent worthy temple attendance, humble, obedient, know how to sacrifice and consecrate their lives etc.
When they meet non-RM's I think they should still go out with them! But I hope those they meet that did not serve or complete their service have a very good reason for not fulfilling this commandment for our young men. A serious sickness is a legitimate reason. If the young men they date did not serve a mission because of worthiness or lack of desire- I pray my daughters are kind to these young men and still get to know these young men, but don't progress their relationships with them unless these young men have been able to fully repent (yes, repentance is real!) and are actively participating in the church, home teaching, worthily attending the temple etc.
I hope and pray that if I have sons- that they serve full time missions because it is commandment of the Lord to all ABLE young men. Missions help young men focus on the lords work and service and not themselves. Missions are hard work and full of disappointment and if approached the right way are the best way for a young man to come unto Christ and become a little more like him. They teach young men to better study their scriptures. They help young men learn to better be obedient, make sacrifices, consecrate their lives, fast, fulfill covenants, repent, share their talents, help the sick and needy.
So I guess I hope RM is on the "want list" not checklist for my daughters. But I hope through not only my words but my example that I teach them that not all RM's are marriage material and likewise not all young men that didn't serve are marriage material. but chances are that if they served a mission then those young men will have what should be on a checklist. Obedience, sacrifice, consecration, kindness, hard working etc
I love you for this. Though I'm not LDS, and not temple worthy, I appropriate what you have spoken. You have captured my feelings and other that of other men perfectly. We ARE vulnerable, and we are hurt. And it's not fun. Quite frankly, we feel like yesterday's Kleenex you would discard on the street corner. As a gentleman to the best of his abilities, I do wonder what in the world goes through ya'll's heads. Although, to speak for personally, I AM truly content to be bachelor. I wrestled with that, and have comes to grip that idea firmly in hand, without being bitter.
ReplyDeleteGah. I'm sorry things have been so hard for you. Hurt's a common feeling these days, sadly.
DeleteI meant appreciate. Bloody Spellcheck.
ReplyDeleteOne of the primary reasons I didn't go to church the last several years is because of this exact thing you are talking about. When I lived in BYU housing with my brother several years ago, I tried going to church again for a couple weeks. In 3 weeks, I had 4 different girls come up and start talking to me, and when the topic of my age and the fact I hadn't served a mission arose, every single one of them turned around and never said another word to me; not only that, they would no longer even acknowledge my presence. I can't count on both hands how many times it has happened at other times and other places.
ReplyDeleteThe first institute class I ever went to fell along these lines. It was the Preparing for an Eternal Marriage class normally taught by Brother Hunsaker, but was being taught by another guy that day. I hadn't gone to church whatsoever in probably 18 months, and he got up in front of the class, and said "Young ladies, non-return missionaries are untrained. Don't go for the untrained ones." I just about pooped myself, because it's because of completely false things being said by people taken as teachers and leaders like that that cause these sorts of issues and problems.
I've had people tell me that they think the reason I'm going on a mission now is because I want to be able to have girls check that box, and I've had to tell people that they haven't the foggiest idea about the Atonement, and that they need to keep their mouths shut.
This needs to be read by far more people than will probably read it, because I was personally one of those people that gave up all hope due to the "Mormon cultural" problem of being far more worried with a checklist than the person trying to be a better person from the other side of your clipboard.
Thank you so much for your thoughts. I've talked to many who have gone through the exact things you have. The culture can be so unforgiving, unfortunately, and I'm sorry that you had to go through what you have.
DeleteYou'll be a great missionary for it, though. Having an understanding of the Atonement is such a blessing, especially when that's what you'll be helping others to find. Keep your chin up! You're amazing.
I married a non-RM (yes, in the temple) and couldn't be happier. I was brought up to parrot the same ideas you mention as being prominent in our culture, but when I met (at that point) my future husband, and realized that he was someone I could respect and love deeply, that suddenly didn't matter anymore. Some people still occasionally turn off on him when they ask that question (at 27, happily married, with kids, does it really matter anymore?), but most often I get the feeling that the reality is they don't really know how to respond.
ReplyDeleteWell, I can state firmly and on a deep personal level that just because someone didn't serve a mission as a young person doesn't make them unworthy of any of the blessings offered by our Heavenly Father - or mean they will never serve a mission. Ever heard of senior missions? We plan on going on one someday, when we've raised our kids. My husband is one of the very best men I know, and after 5 years of marriage, I think I know him well enough to say that his heart is in the right place. That is what matters.
I would also comment to those who don't know how to respond to the young man (or woman) who didn't serve a mission or came home early: I get that our culture puts a lot of value on serving a mission, and there are awkward thoughts that come to mind when someone says they didn't serve, or left early. I do get it. If there has to be an awkward pause because you're not totally sure how to respond, fine. Just don't end the conversation - or the relationship - there. Remember that everyone is fighting at least one private battle you do not - and probably will never - know anything about. As an example, my own husband spent one of his two "mission-age" years serving in a war zone overseas as a U.S. soldier. Thanks to that, he deals with plenty of private battles on a daily basis, and I love him all the more for his Christlike efforts to persevere. We all deserve love and we all deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt.
Amen, sister! I'm glad you're happy. :) And thank you for your last bit of advice. I sometimes wonder if a chunk of the isolating happens BECAUSE people feel so awkward and don't know what to say. It's a very good point.
DeleteI truly enjoyed your article!
DeletePersonally I don't bring up being an RM in any situation. I feel that if a woman merely wants me because I'm an RM, then the feeling of love isn't as powerful. I also feel that going on a mission was my responsibility or duty, therefore, why would I boast about it? I wanted to show my gratitude to our Heavenly Father for the immense love and wisdom he gave me. I know many great men who didn't serve missions, anyone who would pick me because I went on a mission over them is a poor judge of character (in my opinion).
I would say to women, seek a worthy priesthood holder that can take you through the temple.
if he's an RM, that's fine, if he's not, that's still fine.
As the only one from my immediate family who served a mission, I'd hate to think that people would think less of my amazing parents or siblings simply because they didn't. I don't feel that I'm any more spiritual or closer to the Lord than any of my brothers, or father.
ReplyDeleteYour family's great. I hope people don't think less of them, but even if they do, the Lord thinks a great deal more of all of you.
DeleteBless you, bless you for writing this. I am the mother of three sons, of which only one has served a mission. This topic has been painful for my non-RM sons, and is a contributing factor to the distance they have put between themselves and the Church. While it is said that "every worthy young man should serve a mission", that number will never reach 100%. It is not fair to penalize the young men who do not serve missions, nor is it fair to use the young women as leverage in order to get the young men to serve.
ReplyDeleteYour comment brought tears to my eyes. I'm so sorry things are hard for your family now. I'm sure that your sons are incredible. It doesn't take a mission to make incredible young men, but love and dedication. My hope is that more people will see that and be understanding.
DeleteKeep hanging in there. I'm sure they're grateful to have a mom who loves them and cares for them through this like I feel you do.
I have to admit that when I first started dating my now husband and found out that he never served a mission, I was torn. It took me a little while to overcome the ideals that I had gained in young women's. My husband is a convert to the church. He joined when he was 18 years old and already had a contract with the army that he couldn't get out of to go serve a mission. The date we went on next after finding out that he didn't serve a mission, we went to the temple to babysit my baby niece so my sister and her husband go attend a session. As we sat outside the temple with my niece, we talked extensively about the temple, and he shared his testimony of the temple with me, and described the place of importance that it held in his heart. That was the last time I ever doubted his spiritual worthiness to date. After marrying and having three boys, I have become a young women leader and I do not tell them to only marry returned missionary, I always tell them to look for a young man with a well used temple recommend. At the same time though, I am doing everything I can to encourage my sons to serve missions. They are still very young, but it won't be long.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your experiences! I really do believe that you can tell more about what kind of a spouse someone will be by how they feel about the temple. Also: your comment about what you tell the young women made me so happy. You're doing great things!
DeleteYou don't make sense. You make it sound like there is a difference. Like if they love the temple, but decide they don't need to obey the commandments(this is referring to missionaries who could serve but chose not to) then it's ok. Your own argument can be used against you. A mission isn't just a check list. It's their commitment to Jesus Christ. You're a sad soul putting down women for wanting a returned missionary because of what that should mean. It should mean they are selfless and committed and willing to sacrifice for Jesus Christ. STOP making women feel bad for wanting that.
DeleteWow! You totally missed the point of the post!
DeleteShe isn't downplaying the need to go on a mission. She is simply trying to.encourage people not to stigmatize those who haven't served missions. It's not a bad thing to want an RM, but letting that become the most important factor is the problem she's speaking out against.
DeleteYes she is. She's using as an example any general authority that hasn't been on a mission and saying..." see, they didn't serve, so you don't have to!" Read her comments. They are retarded. She has completely missed the point of missionary work and commandments.
DeleteThere are reasons some people don't serve missions. I was only able to serve 8 months for health reasons and I came home and am currently shunned by 90% of my Ward and all of my Mormon college friends because of my decision to return. I wish I could've returned "honorably " in your mind but that would have killed me. She was right on with her comments and I appreciate them greatly
DeleteTo the person who says she did not make sense, all I can say is wow...
DeleteDid you notice where she said he had joined the military prior to converting? I suppose that you think he should have gone back to the Army and said "oh, sorry, I need to go on a mission for my church first?" As a man who is retired from the Army, trust me, that would NOT work.
Im guessing you vote in every election and claim to be a good upstanding citizen? Guess what, you are not. A commitment to the military is, in my opinion, something that shows he is willing to defend your right to worship however you want (among many other things). I would think that his volunteering to potentially give his life, if needed, to defend your right to be an unpatriotic fool is much more "Worthy" than spending 2 years on a mission.
Frankly, its a pretty pitiful excuse for an "American" to think that defending their country is not as good as serving a mission. People like you are the PROBLEM, not the answer.
Good for you. I'm not talking about medical reasons at all. Refer to my post above where I said "(this is referring to missionaries who could serve but chose not to)". Thanks though.
DeleteA mission never ends for those who follow Christ. I never understood the return missionary phrase with in Christ Church. All.of us who call ourselves Christians should be Continuing Missionaries. I have served both "full-time" and I have had callings as a Father, husband and Grandfather. There is no difference as long as we Serve with all your heart might mind and Strength. Once started rather fulltime at 18.or when married righteously in the Temple we never should stop.Bringing the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you a women in love with.a fully honorable and Christ centered young man who didn't serve a Mission at 18 I say if after prayer.you feel the Guidance of the Holy Ghost to Marry the.man, Do It! Then commit to serve a couples Mission when retired. The Church needs Senior Missionaries most.desperately. This article is correct in all ways. Righteousness and being Christ.Centered rather.a RM or Not is the key to Eternal Happiness
DeleteTo the person talking about the military. I never mentioned the military anywhere in my post. Awesome rant though.
DeleteThe person talking about the military was referring to President Monson's reasoning for not serving a mission.
DeleteThis is an awesome post. Thank you!
ReplyDelete"Would Christ do that? Would he refuse to befriend and support and build a relationship with someone simply because they didn't serve a mission? If you think so, you do not know Christ." -I love this!
Thank YOU! I'm grateful to hear your response. :)
DeleteThis was really good! My mission president didn't serve a mission and hes one of the most amazing people i know! the only thing that made me dislike this blog post was when you put " tell president monson this".....Pretty sure the Lords mouth piece doesn't need to be told how to run the Lords church since we believe his words are Gods words.... but i think this is good for members to know to not be judgmental for those that didn't serve a mission!
ReplyDeleteThat mission president sounds like he would be pretty fantastic!
DeleteMy tone may not have come across clearly with that "tell President Monson" comment. It was more of a hypothetical "I'd like to see you make the claim that the only real men are returned missionaries when the prophet of the church didn't serve and is probably the realest real man you could think of" thing. That was waaaay long-winded, but hopefully it clarified some things.
Why are you going so far the other way and finding and making excuses for not serving a mission? Yes, there are legitimate reasons why one may not be able to serve a mission. But it is indeed a commandment. And the majority of men are able. This is a commandment from Thomas S. Monson, who you are using as an example as why not to serve. It wasn't a commandment back then and you don't know why he didn't. But you do know that he sure as heck isn't saying... I didn't serve a mission and now I'm the prophet, so you don't have to. He speaks directly for the Lord. You're incredibly immature and annoying.
DeleteIt's also a commandment not to judge. And to love one another. And, just to be that person, remember: not a single one of the members in the first presidency served missions. Different times, yes, but still something to keep in mind. If you don't care for what is written here, just move on and find another page to troll.
DeleteI'm not trolling I just think it's hypocritical to judge girls for having standards for their eternal companion, just because some men are not willing to serve and then want to be babied for it afterwards. It's all a crock of crap and passed under "love one another". People use that term to judge people for" judging". Women should absolutely have a list and an rm should be on it, and then they can evaluate each rm on where he currently is spiritually as well. And if she comes across a man who had a legitimate reason not to obey the commandment to serve, and he is currently on the right path and at the standard that woman wants, then great! But you shouldn't make a huge blanketed statement that women should not have rm on their list because there are men who didn't serve. It's ridiculous. You people keep judging women for what they want in a spouse though, it makes you look really smart and caring and not hypocritical at all.
DeleteAnonymous above, I don't know why it is so upsetting to you to read that there are good worthy non-RM's out there. They are not banned from the celestial kingdom. Assuming that another person was not willing to serve and wants to be babied simply because they aren't an RM...please think about what you are saying there. She wrote this in response to seeing good people shunned due to their non-RM status. Lets not shun people. "If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance and care."--Marvin J. Ashton. Here's a fabulous BYU devotional about grace that explains how the atonement is for you and me and even those non-RM young men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXr9it_pbY
DeleteModeration in all things, I say. While RM should not be a requirement, it is a desirable trait. I say this, admittedly, because I am one of those who absolutely hates the dating scene in Utah. I am 21, have an Associate's Degree and I'm in the US Army Reserves. But I'm not an RM. I've had worthiness issues since I was 14, but in order to fit in I lied about them. I lied to get the Melchizedek priesthood, to get Endowed, and to get into the MTC. I had a change of heart 3 days before I would have gone out to the mission field, confessed, and went home to work through the repentance process. I could have made it 2 years. I could have done great things, taught people, and converted people. That was two years ago, and I'm still struggling with an addiction that makes me unworthy. It is possible I won't be able to kick the addiction. According to most of you, I don't deserve the attention of a worthy young woman. Even those of you who have scratched off "RM" still have "Temple Worthy" on the required list. I am neither, so I guess I'm stuck dating non-members indefinitely.
DeleteVery much needed to be said and needs to be understood. Case in point, excluding time served as mission presidents, only seven of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and First Presidency served missions. True that most couldn't because of war, but proves the point that there's much more to service and ability to serve than whether one has served a mission.
ReplyDeleteExactly! I figure that the Twelve are doing something right, so the whole "you have to serve a mission to be a spiritual powerhouse" thing is a moot point. Thanks for your thoughts.
DeleteNote that Howard W. Hunter never served a mission... but he went on to become P
Deleteresident of the the Church.
Arianna, really, you're so stupid. That's like saying... "oh you drink and have sex and dont obey other commandments? No worries!" The word of wisdom, the law of chastity, and serving a mission are all commandments. For able men. So you're just choosing which commandments you think are slight enough to break, and then trying to convince every woman to be ok with it too. Pull your head out.
DeleteYou've done well by writing this post. Some may say that not serving, or serving an incomplete mission in correlated to one's lack of spirituality or commitment to the Lord. I find this to be as ostracizing a concept as there is in the church. To make the choice to serve a mission, to stay on a mission, and to return home having developed some of the many attainable Christlike attributes is certainly admirable and praiseworthy. To assume that one cannot attain those attributes, serve their friends, family, co-workers, strangers, nature, and influence for good without the aid of serving a mission is in most cases... rubbish. My full disclosure of directly relating to this particular subject in my own life and in the life of a number of friends and family members should be noted. Sitting through a number of Priesthood meetings, sacrament meetings, counseling sessions, and hearing generalized assumptions and opinions has made my heart soften and increased my capacity to mourn with those that mourn. To ostracize such young men and women (which carries over into adulthood and old age) is to fall in line with the hypocrites, who know not what they do. To believe in, and root for, these young men and women who do not serve or serve only for a period of time is truly a sign of those who listen to the Spirit rather than the assumptions and devastating opinions of the majority. A great deal of love and support to those who have been impacted by this tragedy is in order. And it starts with regular folks like me and you. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is marvelous, challenging, and above all... the way to eternal happiness. Let us not forget that a mission, while marvelous, challenging, and one way to develop the soul is not the only way nor the bar we are entitle to use in our personal judgments. Let He who is qualified and knows our innermost struggles do the judging.
ReplyDeleteIt sure changes things to be personally influenced by this issue, doesn't it? We should always be championing each other, no matter what situation we're in. I especially loved your last two sentences. Man looketh on the missionary tag, but the Lord looketh on the one painted on the heart, as Elder Andersen might say. :)
DeleteThis is just the tip of the iceberg of what's wrong with the mormon church, christianity, and religion as a whole. This is a step in the right direction, though.
ReplyDeleteI think religion and Christianity and my own beliefs are so beautiful, actually. When it comes to what's wrong with religion, the buck more often than not stops at imperfect people and judgmental people. Being human causes a lot of problems sometimes, and I think a lot of problems could be solved if we just loved each other.
DeleteThere are those that sincerely believe that they love others... I feel the bigger problem is that so few people actually understand what it means to truly love their fellow man. Love means more than just empty words. Love is serving your fellow man, accepting him for who he is and what he stands for. Most of all being willing to take the time to really know him as his own person, as an individual.
DeleteFantastic! I was that young man, I was far from the church by the time I was 19 and when I finally came back I was too old to serve a traditional mission but I fought and got myself worthy of the temple and was striving to b more like christ yet was still getting turned down and ignored and ostracized for not serving. Thankfully I met a girl who saw who I am, not what title I might have and loved me enough to b sealed to me for all eternity in the temple. But she was the exception to the rule, at least for me, it's sad
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing this! I'm continually amazed by how many strong individuals like you have gone through the same exact thing. It's a common burden, unfortunately, but by sharing your experience, you're helping so many.
DeleteWell expressed! I agree too! I'm a 2nd generation LDS in my family. My dad didn't serve a mission but he is a worthy Priesthood holder and he married my mum in the temple for all time and eternity. I love how you said temple worthiness and dedication to the Gospel should take complete priority. This goes for young women in the church too. I pray and hope that young women go on missions for the right reasons and not because it is an expectation. Thank you for your words! :)
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing such a great story! And for mentioning the young women. I really wish I would have mentioned young women more after the fact, because the pressure and expectations for them is just as high as for the young men, I'm finding. I bet your parents are just fantastic.
DeleteMormon men are some of the blandest people I know, with their bad haircuts, tacky jokes, and creepy white button up short sleeve shirts, I have no idea how Mormon women do it. I've had a couple LDS girls ask me out for a friendly date just to get a little relief from it all, from what they told me it seems like a complete nightmare. I would lose my mind.
ReplyDeleteHaha. They're not all that bad. Are you from Utah? Because I have met some young men who could definitely diversify their interests/personalities some more, and I often wonder if it's because the Utah environment is so lackluster. Maybe I'll blog about how to not be a boring Mormon in the future. :)
Deletehahaha This made me laugh. I would say, however, that PEOPLE in general are bland, with bad haircuts and tacky jokes paired with horrible fashion. But you can also find some of the greatest people in our church as well! Not to put myself or my friends on a pedestal, but we lead a much more exciting life than probably 90% of the general population of the world! Last week we rappelled down Mesa Falls (Idaho), the week before that we did the Corona Arch rope swing (youtube it!), this week we kayaked from one city to another (about 22 miles down a river), next week is white water rafting, followed by sky diving the week after that. Now you tell me we're bland and boring...
DeleteThank you for writing this! I've been living in Utah for two years now and I really love it here but there is a culture here that can be very off putting at times. It has been hard to put into words and pinpoint exactly what about the culture tends to annoy me but I think you've really hit the nail on the head for at least part of it. Thanks for this post!
ReplyDeleteWe need to look at who someone is more than what they have or have not done in the past. I served a mission but I'm nowhere near perfect and have learned to accept that I have weaknesses which can be overcome with patience and effort in time. I think it was this culture which falsely brought me up to believe that somehow I would become this invulnerable perfect man by serving a mission. That just hasn't been the case. I certainly grew in many ways and my intellectual testimony of the gospel skyrocketed during my mission, for which I will always look back on the experience with fondness. But it is the inner devotion and sense of true discipleship that needs to be what woman are looking for in a man. Those are the qualities which will get him through the storms in life. Anyone can gain those qualities with time, and the mission is a great environment to help foster those attributes, but it is not the only place to develop them. It is in the actions of your everyday life that you may truly become like Christ.
Thank you for your kind words! The older I get, the more issues I see on a cultural level that have got to be addressed. The Gospel is so simple and so beautiful, but sometimes people don't get to that point because they get stuck in the crossfire of local culture. It's frustrating.
DeleteI love what you said about getting through the storms of life. It's true! The Lord knew that some would not serve missions, and He would never dam their spiritual growth because of that choice.
This will sound really terrible.. But I cried when I read this.
ReplyDeleteIt's like someone finally understands. Thank you Ari, thank you so much..
I had a mission call. I was called to the coolest place on earth, the Swiss Alps! But because of some decisions I made, I gave my mission up. It's the Lords mission, not mine. And he heserves the best.
Members don't see it from my perspective, they just see it as "he sinned so he didn't go. SHUN!". But I still visit the temple every week. I still live an active lifestyle, because I know its not the members church, its the Lords.
Thank you Ari. I hope more women will consider your challenge.. Because heartbreak gets kind of old after a while.
Thank you
There is nothing terrible about crying while reading this. It's sad that you see it that way. God gave us tears to use, not be ashamed of. I'm so sorry for your heartbreak, so amazed by your service, and sincerity.
DeleteMy husband and I are tattooed converts, and we go through our share of shunning. I appreciate your struggle and know your helpmeet will see your true heart.
As a Return Missionary who came home from a mission early for medical reasons, I hope to find a Daughter of Zion who thinks like you do.
ReplyDeleteReturned missionary doesn't mean anything to me. My father, for personal reasons, did not serve a mission. He is one of the sweetest, most spiritual men that I know and has helped more young men desire to become worthy missionaries than I dare to count with his one on one surfing trips to share his testimony with the young men in our ward.
ReplyDeleteAt BYU I met all types of RMs and discovered that RM means nothing if they didn't let the atonement work in their lives. Some of my worst dates where I felt used and cheated were with 'honorable' returned missionaries and some of my favorite dates with creative activities and wonderful conversations were with men who never served full time missions. The whole point of getting married is to find a temple worthy man who loves you and wants to be with you for eternity. One of my best friends from my mission married a young man who had not served a mission and he loves her and helps her accomplish her dreams more than some of the RMs that my other friends have married. I married a RM and he does the same for me, but not because he served a mission. He helps me because he believes that this marriage is for eternity and as long as we're willing to work together we can help each other become all the Lord wants us to be.
Thank you for this as someone who has struggled with severe anxiety and unable to serve it's been a struggle the last few years. It has been hard to find a place to fit in, I avoided singles wards for about three years because I couldn't handle the rejection. I have missed out on so much do to that fear and i just wish everyone saw what you see. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThe experiences that I had as a missionary shaped who I am forever. Without the tmisison experience I wouldn't be the man I am an likely not be temple worthy. The impact of my mission is far more than a leveraging tool in an effort to "pull girls" but is something everlasting and meaningful to me that I wouldn't change for anything. Those who don't serve missions will never understand this emotion as well as those who didn't serve their missions with all their heart might mind and strength will not feel this same fervor.
ReplyDeleteRight on.
DeleteThank you for your thoughts. Missions are wonderful, and I'm glad that yours has done so much good for you in your life.
DeleteBehold, a true disciple who would follow the Fuehrer anywhere and give unquestioning obedience and loyalty.
DeleteI tend to disagree with this comment. I think anytime you are serving the Lord and living the Gospel you feel what you feel on a mission. It's charity. The pure love of Christ. I have felt this serving at a Muscular Dystrophy Camp, as well as other service activities I have participated in. I try to live a Christ centered live and feel his love in my life. The feeling doesn't have to end. I am planning on a year of college before my mission to make sure I'm going for the right reasons. I get people ask me all the time why I doubt my testimony, and that it is better to serve early. I get girls that aren't eager to date me, so you don't trip up before it. I figure if I'm in a spiritual condition that is low enough that I won't be worthy in a year, then I'm not worthy/ready now. It is hard dating. When all the LDS girls we're 'supposed' to date won't date us, or make us feel like crap, who do we want to date? The girls that don't care. The girls without high standards. That's where it can get hard to stay on the path. That is one reason why you see some young men who have been faithful fall. I love your comment about being Christ like. Mother's are so loving of their kids. I wish YW could follow this example of love and love everyone.
DeleteI am serving as a Single Senior Sister Missionary right now, working in a mission office. I have no grandchildren and have become very close to the young missionaries, because they fill a place in my heart that is normally filled by one's grandkids. So I feel despair and real grief when a missionary is sent home from his or her mission, especially when it's for transgression. The pain I feel for them is NOT because of the seriousness of their offense; their sins are forgivable through true repentance. My concern is because, as you so eloquently pointed out, they will face ostracism and condemnation from those who ought to know better.
ReplyDeleteRecently, Elder Bednar repeated a story told by another General Authority about a pearl of great worth which had been placed into a beautiful box. Most people admired the box but ignored the pearl. The pearl is the Gospel of Jesus Christ; the box is the Church. It's important not to confuse the two! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has grown so much that it now embraces far more people outside of Utah than within the state. Over the next few years, the culture of the Church will change, and those who are not ready to accept those changes will be left in the dust. Dating and marrying only a returned missionary will probably be one of those cultural things which will diminish in importance over time. However, to the girls who still cling to this exclusive and narrow ideal, I would like to point out that they will ultimately be judged by the judgment they themselves meet out! If you try to see others as the Savior sees them, you will be a much happier person.
Thank you for this. I am currently dating and planning to marry a man who is not an RM, but who is one of the most spiritual people I have ever met. Still, one of the first questions I get asked from the people in my home ward, who've not met him, is, "Where did he serve his mission?" When I tell them he didn't, there is a noticeable falter in their smile, and their voices get kind of strained. They usually just say, "Oh. Okay. I guess that's fine." One of the most helpful said to my mother, "Not all worthy men have a chance to serve," an attitude I wish more people had. So thank you for voicing something that our ever-expanding community needs to hear.
ReplyDeleteArianna, I don't know you personally, but I want you to know that you are my hero and that your words touched me. As a non-RM who lives in Utah, I can testify that it is a hard place and culture to live in for people like me. I had my bout of inactivity when I realized that it wasn't just the young women who decided to abandon me as a viable companion, but the members of my ward who I had grown up with, including my bishop. It hurt on such a deep level, something made worse by the fact that my ward didn't even notice that I had stopped coming to church. After a year or so, I started attending at a new ward, and the negative stigma was still there. But at that point I had decided that I just had to know that just because the Church is true, does not mean that the people in it are. At this point, I'm coming up on my 1st wedding anniversary to my beautiful daughter of God, who I took through the temple and was sealed to and whom I couldn't be happier with. I'll just leave this, which is something I came up with when I was feeling neglected: Young women should not have the letters "RM" so high on their list of things they would like in a spouse if those letters stand for Returned Missionary. Instead, let those two letters stand for "Righteous Man."
ReplyDeleteFortunately, not every member has to develop the its-ok-to-marry-a-non-rm mentality. Meaning, to blog about such a topic is a bit sad and telling of the underdeveloped self-ability to think for ourselves and realize that, even if this generally true (which it is most certainly not), we have never had to adopt the ridiculous idea to have to marry RM, in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI am one such missionary who came home for medical reasons. I have found the dating scene to be irritating and not worth my time. I have changed my focus in school and life so that I mean live and work in another country. Good luck to those who stay in this culture.
ReplyDeleteI like your sentiments. I really do. There is a lot of judgmental behavior that goes on in the dating world. Before I was married (to an RM, who left late because of personal issues), I had no problem accepting dates with guys who had not been on missions. I had no problems being their friend. It has always bothered me that there are girls out there who wouldn't even talk to a guy, even or friendship's sake, just because of his non-RM status. Some of my good friends went on missions late, came home early, or didn't even go at all.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I would like to point out that missions are still important, and I had that on my checklist for a reason. Would I have married a guy who did not go on a mission? Sure, but he had better have had a good reason. Missions are a commandment of our young men-- they are told that they should go if they are able. If I had met a guy that I liked enough to consider seriously dating but he had not served a mission, I would have wanted to know why. Was he unable to go for medical or even financial reasons? Did he seriously pray about it and feel that this was not what he was to do at this point in life? If he is an otherwise spiritual man, then I see no problem here. Even if he was unable to go because of past worthiness issues, but now he has repented and is temple-worthy, his lack of RM status isn't important. BUT if he is struggling with his testimony and hasn't gone because of that, or hasn't really prayed about it and has just been dragging his feet, I'm sorry but that does not make him worthy at this moment for a potential spouse in my book. He has more work to do before I would have considered marrying him, and I would feel the need for him to prove to me that he is spiritual enough to value a temple marriage the way I do.
My point is, I love the general message here and I think it's an important one, but I think it's important that girls also consider the reasons why a particular young man hasn't served, in conjunction with his current worthiness. Don't go blindly into something. There is such a thing as righteous judgment, and it's something we are given to help us make good decisions. Many, many guys have not served missions for completely valid, even honorable reasons. But there are others who are struggling spiritually, and it may not be wise to marry such a person. Get to know the guy. Not all of them will tell you their reasons right away, and I wouldn't expect them to. However, before you make a serious decision like marriage, you deserve to know his reasons so you can make an informed decision.
Very well said! I love the comment above. Thanks!
DeleteThank you for your thoughts. I agree with most of your points, which is why I stressed temple worthiness. Marriage takes a serious amount of consideration and good judgment, and every single person is entitled to ask the questions you've invited them to ask and should do so. When you're choosing a companion, jumping in blindly and with disregard is reckless. That's what I love about the Gospel. The Lord directs us when we use discretion and ask Him what we should do.
DeleteMy main caution would be to not hold someone's past against them if they have allowed the Atonement to work in their lives. Like I said, it takes discretion to see that, but forgiveness on our part is just as critical as true repentance on the part of another.
This comment reflects my exact thoughts! I had "RM" on my list of "what I was looking for." Did that mean I wouldn't accept dates with men who hadn't served missions? Absolutely not. Did that mean marriage to them was out of the question? Not for me. And this post really opened my eyes to what a young man who hasn't served a mission has to go through...it isn't right. My brother is an extremely righteous, worthy, married in the temple man who never served a mission. But he'll be the first one to tell you that he wasn't always this great guy. He has a daughter now and absolutely hopes she finds an RM to marry. I think "returned missionary" is an extremely desirable thing to look for in a man, but not a deal breaker. Because, as most of us know, being a returned missionary doesn't necessarily make someone a spiritual powerhouse.
DeleteHaving lived in Provo, Utah, for a few years, I understand that the culture can be different there for several reasons. This culture is not necessarily bad, it is just different - in the same way cultures in different countries are different. In each one, there are things that can definitely be improved. Having lived in different countries/communities, the specific problem Ari brought up is really more of a problem in some communities and not in others.
ReplyDeleteWhat Ari has brought up here is a complex issue (brought about by factors that differ in as many ways as there are individuals involved) with a basic underlying principle - love in the Gospel of Christ or love "as [He] has loved [us]". But while the principles she is promoting are true and universal, and the method (specifically of taking an item off a dating checklist) she has chosen is good for her and for some, the method itself, in my opinion, may not be the best for everyone. (Which I don't think she is necessarily saying but I just thought that this should perhaps be clarified)
In other words, I think it is appropriate for some people to want or expect their future spouses to have served missions. Choices in dating and marriage is a complex topic in and of itself that I don't think it should be wholly relegated to a checklist anyway, whether or not there is an entry there that says "RM" (Returned Missionary). The marriage choice should be done of the person's "own free will and choice" and if that person wants to marry an RM, let him/her marry an RM (or not) - whatever he/she chooses as long as he/she has ascertained for him/herself that the choice and the way the choice was made are right (viewing past the labels and the superficial and focusing on the things that matter most - like Ari taught here). We can choose either way and it could very well be right and it could very well work out (or not).
Having said that, I think we all should be sensitive to the feelings and situation and spiritual progress of everyone and not assume anything but good things. I agree with Ari on trying to look past the "RM" label (or the lack of it or any other label for that matter) and to look at the good that's really there (if we have the business to be looking in the first place).
I cannot imagine how hard it must be for people who do not have a certain profile (e.g. to not have completed a mission) to live where that profile is "expected" which is often the case in Utah - more in certain parts than in others. While there is much we can do collectively about this, I know that efforts are being made by general and local church leaders and members to avoid discrimination or poor treatment by labeling (e.g. BYU vs non-BYU, student vs non-student, LDS vs non-LDS, single vs married, RM vs non-RM, etc.)
One of the best things about the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is that it has a personal and unique message to each of us. In this topic, the Gospel has a message for the person who did not serve a mission for whatever reason, for the person who has served but finds life to be an unending struggle, for the person who has not yet served but could still go, for the person who is considering dating him, and even for the family member or leader who is involved with any of these individuals. It is important to get to the answers that God want you to have and you may, like the others who have commented, find your answers from this article.
Lastly, this topic reminds me of this wonderful talk given by Elder Ballard, an apostle, called "Doctrine of Inclusion"
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/10/doctrine-of-inclusion
I love this talk and I know that what this apostle taught here is true and should be followed. While Elder Ballard did not say this directly, I personally think that extending the lesson beyond the LDS and non-LDS context to the RM and non-RM context to whatever other label we tend to use is entirely appropriate.
Ari, thanks for sharing! (And sorry for the long comment.) :)
I usually don't post on things like this but I felt I needed to. First off, thank you for writing this. I feel that you put into words how I have felt for some time. I met my fiance three weeks before he left on a mission. He quickly became my one of my best friends (little did I know, he'd become my future companion as well) and we wrote weekly while he was gone. Unfortunately, due to medical conditions, he was sent home after one month of being in the MTC. His loving family struggled with him returning home early because they felt that if he didn't serve a mission, it was a bad reflection on them and they were worried about him straying from the church. It was so hard to see him struggle knowing that he had disappointed his family and he eventually felt like he had disappointed his Savior. It took him a long time to come to terms with the fact that he gave it his everything, he came home early, and that's okay.
ReplyDeleteI, like you, made a list of qualities that I wanted in a future husband when I was in Young Women's. Ironically enough, I had listed "doesn't serve a mission because his family offers him a car." As funny as that sounds, my fiance's family did try to persuade him to return to the mission field by promising him a car when he came home. He gratefully declined because he know it wasn't the right reason to be going.
I am SO grateful to have him in my life. He may not have served a mission, but he is one of the most amazing, young, worthy priesthood holders I have ever met. Every situation is different, just as mine may seem a bit unique to others. However, I have learned that it is not about being a return missionary, but rather a worthy priesthood holder who loves me and honors me as a daughter of God and I could not ask for anything more.
This is big reason why I really have nothing to do with the church. I didn't go on my mission, made some decisions early on and got married and had a kid. Later on, got divorced and started going back to church looking for somebody maybe. Turned out that I really didn't stand a chance as I had a kid and wasn't a missionary, much less temple worthy. So now I am where I am and not unhappy at all. But this issue had me walk away and likely not to come back because of it.
ReplyDeleteI, like you, wrote Returned Missionary on my list of desired attributes for a future spouse, every. single. time. we had that activity in young women's. I don't know for sure when my perspective changed, but it has changed, and I am beyond grateful that it has. I have some friends and family members that didn't serve, or they came home early, and I think they're a major reason why my perspective changed. I know we've had the lesson of "marry a return missionary" drilled into our minds, mostly because I think that is the easiest way to get the point of marrying someone temple worthy across the minds of several teenage girls. Thank you for posting this, and helping me remember how much this means to me personally!
ReplyDeleteTemple worthiness should come first. Thank you for writing this blog post. One of the men I admire most had to come home early from a mission and it was by no means because he was unworthy. He's been a member missionary ever since.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of what you're saying. You're right. A lot of times, men do get wrongfully disregarded because they haven't served missions and its sad. What I don't agree with is that you're saying its wrong for girls to have "returned missionary" on their list. I have first hand seen what missions do to young men and that is something I want. Im not saying that I wouldn't give a young man a chance because he hasn't gone on a mission. I would still take the time to get to know him and see the more important aspects of him but as of right now, I LOVE that young men take the time and sacrifice to serve the Lord and that is definitely something worthy of being on my "list." Should we disregard those who haven't served? NO. But its something that I definitely look for and theres nothing wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteI come from a back ground where my father served for 3 months before coming home because of "illness". (he told me he used his sickness as an excuse to come home) I have one son who made some choices that have not allowed him to serve one. My fathers regrets come not because he had difficulty dating his regret came because he did not live up to that portion of his covenant that he made with the Lord at that point in his life. In the case of my son who is not able to serve. He is attending school at one of our church universities and has found out that it really is challenging at times in the dating arena. I am so proud of my son, I believe in repentance! I believe in full and complete repentance! I expect some young lady who is all that I want for my son to come into his life and sweep him off his feet and look past some bad decisions he has made early on and see the real- the new man he has become. I am confident this will happen in spite of some of the natural consequences that come with some past decisions including dating struggles. We live in a politically correct world where everyone is supposed to be able to think and do what they want with no consequences. But that is not reality. I know my angel mother saw my father for the man he really was.
ReplyDeleteThe first reason I am posting this comment is to give you kudos for pointing out that even when a young man does not serve a full time mission at the appropriate age they should NEVER be shunned or made to feel like a lesser person. As you rightly point out, Christ would NEVER do that! Thank you for helping address that issue.
The second reason for this post is to address a very important point that your blog seems to have missed. The decision to serve a mission for young men in that age group is a commandment not an option as it is with the young women. Because it is a commandment that "every worthy and able young man should prepare for and serve a mission" it changes the whole dynamics of the discussion you began in your blog. Aside from my two sons previously mentioned, my wife and I are also the parents of three beautiful young women who we want to see every blessing of eternity bestowed on including marriage to a temple worthy young man. My oldest daughter is married to an RM who himself came home from his mission early, waited for one year before returning to finish his service and the remainder of his "full time". He is everything I hoped for in a temple worthy husband for her! My daughters are fully aware that RM status is not a fool proof indicator of the quality of the young men they date. The point however, is that "RM" is not a bad title to carry. It should not be, as you rightly point out, an absolute necessary title for young womens future husbands, but neither do I believe it should be crossed from the list of good attributes in a future husband. I know the lucky young lady that becomes the bride of my non-RM son will have an eternity of happiness. Unfortunately there were some comments to your post that showed a tendency of some to justify their views of not serving. The commandment is for young men to serve if able and worthy. The number who serve not quite so faithfully will always be there as well, but that does not justify anyone in condemning the faithful RM's. The young women who judge wrongly and avoid these wonderful young men who haven't served will be missing out on some real opportunity, but even then, judging those same young women for trying to make eternally critical decisions based on the knowledge that they have at the time is just as wrong and the wrong you addressed in your post. The young women who judge wrongfully of men who have not served missions are just as shallow spiritually as those RM's who claim that title because of time served but had no quality invested in that time. I pray that my son never walks away from one of those shallow young woman's jilt and uses her for an excuse to leave the church or justify another poor decision on his part.
This is the best comment in the comments section. We were shocked to see that the article said nothing regarding the fact that a mission for young men is a commandment of the Lord, not an optional decision without consequences. Thank you for your post!
DeleteI am so glad to see that someone made this distinction. There are always those that look for loopholes in the Lord's commandments, and this is what really needs to happen. Every worthy and able going man is commanded (add emphasis on "commanded") to go on a mission. If it turns out that they are unable to go on a mission or unable to complete the mission, that is where they come into the world as members that have the light of Christ, but don't have the addition of being an RM. If they're found to be unworthy to go on a mission, that is where the commandment of repentance kicks in hard. Those found unworthy can become Christlike just like any other person. This man's son, and a number of my relatives are an iron testament to that. All of God's children should be considered with His eternal love, even when our shortsighted views make that difficult.
DeleteMy Mom was inactive and my Dad wasn't a member when they got married. They are my example that just because a man isn't a RM or even a member of the Church doesn't mean they aren't the right one. My Dad joined later (after me) but the message still rings true. These days, we preach extreme pickiness, when what's important is how the significant other treats you and your future children.
ReplyDeleteHi I'm from Australia. This taboo is not as strong here, but it still exists. Missions don't make a man, that's all I can say. I served a full 2 year mission and can say there is nothing special about a returned missionary. We are just normal people. All our faults and virtues can be found equally in any other part of the population.
ReplyDeleteAll the best on your life journey.
I see this not only after the age has passed for a young man to serve, but also now in those who are just leaving high school. Many choose to serve now right after their graduation. Those that choose to serve a mission after a semester of college now are also looked down upon in a way.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree with your post. Missions are nice things, and teach young men - and young women - many things, but they don't make a person perfect, as does not serving make them an evil person.
That's why I left the Mormon church, it is so anti Christ. This is the ignorant attitude that is prevalent in the Mormon church. Arianna thank you for your honesty. Joseph Smith and his 34 have no place in my life. I'm all about God and being spiritual.
ReplyDeleteGreat article, I agree with what you wrote. However, I have found the pendulum can swing too far the other way. My little sister feels there is too much of a push to marry an RM, as a result she has dated a number of guys who would not be able to take her to the temple. It pains me to see her do this as many of those guys to not treat her like they should. They have the attitude "I didn't serve a mission and I don't need to." To me thinking this way is an issue, rather I wish their attitude was. "I wish I could have served a mission," or "I will do all I can to serve the Lord now." The latter applies to both those who did and did not serve a mission.
ReplyDeleteGirls and guys, men and women will always have unfair criteria for dating. For example, I have ran across the attitude that the best kind of Mormon is a byu Mormon. I have felt the sting of being rejected by a girl simply because I go to the University of Utah and a byu guy was the only type of guy for her. My wish is that we would all look at someone for who they are and not count them out due to arbitrary criteria. Men do the same thing as I have friends who will simply avoid dating a girl because she is 19 and they are too mature at 22 or 21 or whatever the ages may be. Again, I appreciate what you wrote
Very nicely written! The church needs more gals like you.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to say I was BLOWN AWAY by your post! You are very wise. When I was at that stage, RM was also on my list, and after most of the RM's I met were either "one and done"ers (one date, the nothing), or acted like they had eight hands, I had about crossed RM off my list as well!
ReplyDeleteSome guys dont go on missions - because they're serving in the military.IN my book, serving our military SHOULD count the same as a mission. I'd stack any of my military family members against RM's any day. Yes, I know not all RM's are jerks, but the RM label tells you nothing other then they left home for two years.
Nor should anyone look down on someone who came home because they got sick. An ex of mine had that happen to him, and he is one of the most humble, standout, smart guys I've ever known (how he hasn't found a wife yet is beyond me, but that's another story.)
Ari, As a mother of two missionaries who came home early, I cried as I read your article. My first son is now married to a WONDERFUL girl who over looked the fact that he didn't serve two years. This has been my sentiment from the beginning. When the first came home early, we were told that a mission is not a saving ordinance, but temple ordinances are. This was our oldest son. Our youngest son came home early as well, he is running into this same thing. I pray he can find a wonderful girl who feels as you do. Thank you so much for your very well said and beautiful comments.
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate this post a lot. I myself served in a mission in Utah recently for only about 4 months when I decided myself to confess some past mistakes to my mission president which sent me home. I could tell it hurt my loving family bad and I myself was mentally distraught from such an unfortunate circumstance. I think what hurt me more than anything, was that my parents and close friends had a first concern of whether or not I was going back out? Not once did anyone ask how I was doing spiritually or mentally from the whole crazy situation, it was all about the mission and finishing and having the full two years and blah blah. Now I never blamed them and I never got mad at them because I knew that it was hard for them to understand how much I was going through and that repenting was the first thing on my mind not "needing to go back out as soon as possible to serve an honorable mission". I can agree totally that there is a bad illusion about the RM title, which I think is the most messed up thing about LDS culture. What most people do not realize is that %40 of missionaries go less-active or leave the church completely when they get home after 2 years and that was told to me at the MTC. I actually just recently decided I want to go serve again the right way and not for anybody else but myself to grow closer to the savior. I agree also with the dating issue and that a lot of LDS young women will not even want to go on a first date because of it and I honestly think that will never change unfortunately, but I know in the future if a girl makes that an issue then she wont be my wife. Simple as that. Thanks for such a great and true post.
ReplyDeleteI agree. We should not judge based on ehat they did or did not do, but rather we should consider why it did not happen. If its something such as, i just didnt feel like it, i feel that we should look at that as a warning sign that he might not feel like upholding the rest of his priesthiod responsibility. However, if they were sick, or they and the their church leaders felt that it was not right, but they still had the desire to serve, i feel that they still show their desire to serve. I also feel for me personally, that a mission is a time to grow and learn not just about the gospel, but also about yourself. It's not a label. It's an attitude. A mission isn't a span of 24 months. It is a lifetime of dedication to this gospel.
ReplyDeleteYou go girl. this needed to be said, and read by a LOT of people (which it looks like it has!) I'm glad there are people like you who can put it into words so perfectly. missions are simply NOT for everyone, and it is not our place to judge whether a young man is an RM or not. stay golden!
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% I am an "RM" and I hate the term so much. Don't get me wrong I loved my mission, but I have many friends women and. Men going through the same things and what I believe is that everyone has their own mission to serve, my older brother didn't serve but he has been the true example of living a life full of the love of Christ. I'm super grateful for this and to know that someone and what looks like a lot of people share my same concern and beliefs as I do. Because you do come under fire from voicing your opinion on this subject, but it will not push me away from what I know to be true and from my savior. I thank you again Arianna!
ReplyDeleteReally? I've lived in provo for 5 years and have never heard that. Just because one or two people say that doesn't mean the other 80,000 do.
DeleteA few months ago I was talking to some cousins that attend BYU. They were saying that many guys attending BYU will now not date a girl unless she has gone on a mission because they think it means they are not worthy members of the church. There seems to be a serious groupthink problem in Provo.
ReplyDeleteHow can we get this said in general conference???? now THAT would be cool.
ReplyDeleteI wish there were a thousand more like you.
ReplyDeleteI grew up in the church. I started growing apart from the church throughout my years in seminary. I would ask questions that my teachers would not know the answers to and I would know more about how the scriptures we would discuss fit in with world history and events. I am now 20 years old and attending college. I do not believe in the LDS faith anymore and try to find people that have come to the same conclusion through their own study. It is difficult to find friends and people to that will listen to my thoughts and conclusions. I no longer think that the false accounts of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price or the weird accounts of dealings in “The History of the Church” to be of the most concern. The biggest problem with the church, and any other similar organization, is the division it creates between people. A person is either good or bad in the eyes of members depending on their membership. I recognized this occurrence when I was young and it saddened me. They were people I knew and my family would talk bad about them. Religion has always been a source of division between people throughout the world.
ReplyDeleteI have also thought that about how romanticized the missionaries have become. I associate the missionaries with knights and the temples as being the castles that a couple are married in. The temples are viewed as completely sacred, but are derived from other things. The origins of the endowment process were taken from Genesis, and the keys and tokens are taken from Free Masonry.
It is difficult to be happy when it is so hard to make new friends. At my age, past friends go different directions. The hardship of making new friends is made more difficult when a person will diminish your importance in an introduction of yourself. The most rewarding friendships that I have had are based on viewing the world the same. We do not treat our social structure as something that is a given. It must be maintained by the character of the people or else it diminishes from what it can be.
I have interacted with a lot of that think along the same lines that I do. People are not meant to be alone. It is difficult to stay positive when so many people do not want to associate closely with you because you have made a decision to not be a member. It is difficult to change popular opinion. We see through countless scientific discoveries that made people rethink the natural order of things. We see the persecution that those great men and women endured to bring about their truths. While these men and women show that everything can be explained by methods and experiment, we still have people that live with access to the internet and endless libraries that believe in magic and talismans. The priesthood has no more effect on a person’s health than that of a placebo.
Why would I spend my time trying to help others see my point of view? Just as scientists want to show the people the natural order of things, I think it is in the best interest of the human race. I think it is better to believe in things that can be tested and verified and as easily disregarded. This could just be a fault of my own accord that I do not have enough faith to believe in something that can’t be explained. Maybe I am too insecure to fully trust something other than myself. I am methodical and analytical individual and find it difficult to believe others until I have done the study and research myself. I find it difficult to accept others experiences until I have had them myself.
This response is a sincere as I can possibly write. I will never feel differently than this. I think that the access to information is important to the future of mankind because it erases the authority figures and frees people from terrible situations. I hope this can change some people to where our society starts believing in each other more than hoping for a God and fairy tale.
Josh, I also grew up in the church in Utah. Although I don't have the same conclusion as you come to, I wanted to at least give you some hope. I agree with you that people aren't meant to be alone. People need each other to grow, to talk to and to be there. It is a need. I am sorry that you are having difficulty finding friends and that people who don't look down upon you before they actually know you. I am glad that you are doing what you think is best for society. I do want to correct you on a few things. Religion hasn't always been the source of division. There are other sources that divide people such as politics, selfishness/pride, even scientific studies and researches that have been proven and dis-proven throughout the centuries. Religion itself doesn't cause people to be divided. The people themselves do it because we have agency. There are religions out there that seek to gain their own. If anything, religion is to unity the people whether they are LDS or not. People seem to have this need to have others approve of what they believe, or that they are right. If you look at the last presidential election, people were very divide and wouldn't respect each other (that had nothing to do with religion). This country was create from religious people who sought freedom to be able to believe what they wanted freely. Today, people are fighting to keep that freedom. The problem is people have become less tolerable towards each other. The LDS church continually encourage members to be accepting, loving and tolerable towards everyone no matter what they believe. I believe we forget it is okay to have different of opinions. We can learn from each other.
DeleteI will admit there are things that science has helped to explain. However, science is always changing, because it can't have absolute truth. It can get close and continue to draw closer. There will always be a new study, new experiments, that changes of what we can know scientifically. There are things that science can't prove or dis-prove. One is whether God is real. That evidence has to come from you in having the desire and faith to know for yourself. There are apostles that are scientists (Henry B. Erying). The leaders of the LDS church are up to date with the science, news and what going on through out the world. I know members of the church who think like you in that they need proof, experience themselves, or need hard evidence. Even they found and learned that God is real. People throughout the world no matter what religion have personally learned for themselves that God is real. The evidence to know this is every where. Your exists alone is proof of that.
There are things that we don't know or fully understand because the Lord hasn't revealed them. To be honest, it is okay not to know everything. That doesn't mean He isn't real or that the gospel isn't true. It is to exercise our faith and trust in Him. There is a lot we know and come to understand. You will find that there is scientific evidence that does backup what the church teaches, such as the Word of Wisdom on alcohol, tobacco, coffee, getting enough sleep … . Overall, it is truly having faith. I am sure we both could go on and on about this subject of religion and science.
I want to end with, this whether you believe me or not that your choice. I know God is real. It is sad there is a great division as people both in society and throughout the world. God is real. All that I know that I have personally learned from Him whether it was through listening to the leaders of the church, studying the scriptures, going to the temple and to church or seeking out my own answers is true. Without a doubt, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ loves ALL of us no matter who we are and whether we believe in Him or not.
I truly hope you find wonderful friends that see you as you. Everyone deserves a friend. It is possible to have friends with different belief and opinions from you as well as the same. I truly hope you are happy or find happiness now and in the future. :)
Sorry, I know I just commented but I wanted to make sure this point was clear that I should have said before. It doesn't contradict anything I said. Science has done a lot for society. We wouldn't be where are as society, as people, with technology or have the knowledge that we gained without it. The same can be said with religion. Like science, religion can change society, people and also gain great knowledge. There is a balance between religion and science. In everything, there is opposition. There will always be the good and the bad. Of course, the extremes as well. It is finding the balance and the good in both. As society, we need BOTH science and religion. The reason is because they BOTH have their own purpose that we need.
DeleteAgain, I truly hope for the best for you.
If the belief is in something that is wrong then it is not truth. Studying Abraham is the key. It was translated from Egyptian by Joesph Smith. His interpretations of the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham are not correct. This is not the only occurrence of Smith trying to translate things. The manufactured Kinderhook plates were another ( can read about it in the "History of the Church Vol. 5 Pg. 372). The declaration that a Greek Psalter given to him by Professor Henry Caswall ( Caswall's book "The City of the Mormons: Three Days at Nauvoo" is an interesting read) as a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics.
DeleteBefore I found about these accounts the discrepancy that I discovered was in association with the seven scrolls of time that are sad to be a thousand years (Earth time) each (from by seminary teacher Brother John). Three years later I was looking at the facsimiles in Abraham and found in Facsimile No. 2, Fig. 1, that one day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth. This doesn't correlate with the creation of the universe (the universe was not created in seven thousand years, or seven days (Kolob Time). The seven scrolls or dispensations represent the seven thousand years (Earth time) that Man will live on Earth. Mankind has been on Earth much longer than seven thousand years.
It was difficult for me to change the way I perceived the world. It is enlightening and full of hope. I make the difference for good or bad rather than it already being planned out. The evil in the world is not caused by Satan it is caused by neglect, misunderstanding, and other things. The good deeds done by others to you are not because of God they are because that person cares about you.
As a sophomore in high school, I started looking at the church and its doctrine from different perspectives. One must research both sides of everything to be able to make a better decision. We cannot depend on intuition alone and feelings alone. I do not care what decisions people come to if they have researched opposing views. I have read many books, articles, talks, and testimonies of people in favor of the gospel. At least research the few things that I have transcribed and form you own conclusion.
This blog post is really dumb. If a man leaves the church because of some opinions of others, flawed opinions or not, then that just lends to why the girl wouldn't want to marry them anyway. It's not just a check box of serving a mission, but the sacrifice and commmitment to the gospel and to Jesus Christ that it takes to serve a mission and then continue to become like Him afterwards. We don't need to baby non return missionaries. Nor do they need disrespect. But leaving the church and blaming others is very juvenile and naive and sad.
ReplyDeleteGreat post. It got me thinking about where one should draw the line between dating preferences and prejudices. Perhaps a similar topic is that of virginity...for example is it ok for a virgin (who has kept themselves pure with the hopes of marrying someone who has done the same) to lose interest in the person they are dating upon finding out they are not? Is this a prideful action or an acceptable choice of preference? What are your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your post, and as a returned missionary I had a few companions and friends return early for various reasons. I knew that their return home would be one thing that many would not understand and some even question. I'm glad that there are so many people like you and those that have commented that think other wise. If I may add another point, the whole making a list in general about finding your future spouse is such a problem in the Mormon culture. I like how you said that the important things all have to do with spiritual matters and not on the physical aspects. To many times I have been turned away or rejected because I don't fit the cookie cutter image of the perfect man. We need to all be better at truly knowing people and not be so focused on the physical but rather spiritual and eternal matters.
ReplyDeleteI cringed when the conference talk was given about his future wife saying she would only marry an RM. Yes, girls can do a lot to help a young man make that decision, but it helped promote that mindset in our culture. I do think it shows a young man was willing to serve for two years, and that's important, but even more, is he still serving? When I was of dating age, I really watched the guys around me to see how they acted in many situations. I saw who volunteered in the community, in church and how they served in their callings. I have two married RM sons and a son waiting (6 months now) for a call. He will probably end up on a service mission - a whole 'nother subject! (Do you know of anyone who is not severely handicapped mentally or physically that was honored for serving a service mission? - Everyone wants to know "what's wrong with them" that they couldn't serve a "real" mission. I am glad you brought up this topic and opened it for discussion. As parents and leaders, we need to emphasize temple worthiness and the willingness to serve , as qualities to strive for in looking for a spouse.
ReplyDeleteGreat post! I am a single woman, and I don't even ask the question if someone's been on a mission. It tells me nothing about where they are spiritually in the here and now. Going on a mission does not guarantee worthiness, knowledge, spirituality, humility, kindness, charity or any number of emotional or spiritual skills that are really important in life and in marriage in particular. Nor does not going on a mission guarantee that these things are not present. I have had too many experiences with returned missionaries who have come home and continued on a path far away from Christlike behavior. Returned missionaries are not immune from temptations or life problems or bad patterns/character. To judge this way is superficial and erroneous, as you so wonderfully pointed out. I am far more impressed with a man who is striving to develop Christlike character, who learns from mistakes of the past and knows how to overcome no matter how long it takes, and who knows the Savior and His atonement deeply on a very personal level. Whether or not such a man has served a mission doesn't matter to me.
ReplyDelete"To those young men, who I know are struggling: the Lord knows you. You are so critical to His plan, and He loves you. He never stops loving you. Don't give up. "
ReplyDeleteI needed to hear these words. Thank you for being a vessel to fulfill that purpose. You're an amazing woman. God bless.
I somehow stumbled across this page and felt like I'd fallen into a rabbit hole of insanity. Someday in the future Utah will be free of all religion including LDS and humanity will look upon today much the same we today look upon the superstition and ignorance of the Dark Ages. Please people - free your mind from this craziness and get a life. You are all living in a cult.
ReplyDeleteI came home early from my mission because I confessed things that I wanted to make right. I didn't want to be that guy to live a lie for two years like so many others. That was the hardest decision of my life but I did it because I knew it was right. When I came home my ward members distanced me and showed disdain at even making eye contact. I moved to Provo to be with my brother who attended BYU and felt the difficulties you spoke of. Not even just dating but meeting new people, once I mentioned I had come home from my mission(I for one was proud of the step I had taken in repentance) I could just feel the mood change as their interest to even befriend me withered right then and there.
ReplyDeleteIf people were more supportive for the repentance process instead of shunning it we would have less issues with secret unworthiness. Going through my paper work was incredibly hard knowing that I was lying. But I lied nonetheless fearing the repercussions that would come to me and my family had I told the truth.
Realize it everyone. Sin is ugly. Sin is something to be sad about. Repentance however, is the reason The Savior died. And it should be celebrated.
Thank you for your words. They're uplifting to the hurt I've felt since coming home.
It's not about the mission, it's the willingness to serve God. Sure, some guys just aren't able to serve because of their health. This article didn't grasp the premise that a lot of women want to marry return missionaries because that's what the prophet has instructed them to do - we're not "just so consumed with RM status" - I'd never marry a guy who was an RM but not continuing to serve God after returning home. It's not wrong to want to marry a return missionary. Just because the "ideal world" scenario doesn't always work out, doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it. A lot of the logic in this reminds me of the gay marriage argument, and how people will say "well look at Britney Spears' marriage - they're straight and it sucked". So? That doesn't mean we should stop defending traditional marriage.
ReplyDeleteI love this church and gospel so so so much. I believe that we should love everyone, no matter the status, culture, race, personality, what school they go to, where they live etc. Everyone has their own opinion about RMs, priesthood holders, and young men and women of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. But Heavenly Father's opinion is what matters most. We are human. We make mistakes. But Heavenly Father knows that, and that is where the atonement comes in. No matter what religion you belong to, or even if you belong to no religion at all, there is always going to be the infinite love that comes from our savior. He is perfect, so he understands us perfectly. He knows what we go through every second of every day. The world is such an imperfect place full of imperfect people, but it is also a beautiful place. We are all so beautiful. To the men and women who are struggling and have been hurt because they have not served missions and have been judged for that I want to say this: I love you. Maybe I don't know you, but I love you, and I know that Heavenly Father loves you too. I was one who has struggled with this as well. The right person will come, who will want to spend the rest of the eternities with you. There are still good people out there who will take you as you are. All of you. Again, I say, I love you. I know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church. That's not my opinion, that is a fact. I Know it with all of me. I have felt it, and I love you guys. To those of you who are doubting The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...come on sunday! It is the best thing that has ever happened to me! :)
ReplyDeleteI wish I would have read this three years ago! I was caught up in the "marry an RM" because all of them are great guys thing. Unfortunately, not all RM's live gospel standards and do not respect women, or anyone for that matter, well. Fortunately, my life has been lifted up and I am marrying an RM, but not because of it. This article is great to bust the the old saying and let women and men live above on a more loving and less shallow level of life.
ReplyDeleteChoosing to marrying is a very personal decision, however I think that comparing those that serve missions to those that don't was unfair. You made good points, but you should've have stuck to "Loving thy neighbor as thyself". Loving people for who they are with out judging them for the decisions they have made. Yes it's sad that some people have this mentality, but no one is perfect and we are all flawed. If you choose not to serve a mission that decision is between you and the Lord, you do not need verification from the rest of the world for your decision. If a young woman has returned missionary as one of the things she would like in a spouse than that is her decision but that doesn't mean that she should be mean to those that are not. And that doesn't mean that she should be ridiculed for her list. Either way you were right to say that we should love everyone regardless of the choices they have made in their life ours is not the place to judge but to love and lift one another.
ReplyDeleteThe choices you make are personal and you need Heavenly Fathers help. So if it's marriage that you're looking for take it to the Lord.
Thank you so much for this. It brings tears to my eyes. I am an RM myself and I see how people look at young men that didn't serve and it makes me sick. How can anyone be close to christ and treat someone with such disdain just because they didn't serve. My younger brother is one of these. He is struggling to find himself right now and every time I see him all I want to do is show him how much I love him and care for his happiness. I have never cared that he has not served a mission and probably never will. He is a great young man with unlimited potential. Whether he is a RM or not. I see the hurt in his eyes that is constantly there because of the looks he gets from family at reunions and other family events. If there is one place a person should be safe it should be among family and to see the way he is treated makes me sick. That kind of behavior will only push a person from the church, not draw them closer. Thank you so much for your thoughts and your willingness to speak openly on this subject because honestly it is something that needs to be shared everywhrere.
ReplyDeleteI remember it was in Young Womens that I decided I wasn't going to make marrying an RM a priority and it was because my brother didn't serve a mission and I still wanted him to marry a girl in the temple and one that would forgive him of his weakness in the church. My husband is one who was married and divorced by the age he would have been a returned missionary. He also has a tattoo. I think about all the other boys I dated and how unforgiving they were of my past and I always thought that was a bit strange, because I was worthy NOW so why did back THEN matter? My husband wasn't active until about 6 months before we started dating and I told him I wouldnt marry him until he started paying a full tithe. I have been able to watch his testimony grow right before me and it has been such a cool experience. We also went to the temple for the first time, together. That was such a cool experience and something not many couples get to do.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who returned home early after serving eight months, and since his return has created a support group for missionaries like him. I find it sad that the perception of missionaries who did not complete their full two years is so harsh that a support group is needed. Also, he told me that a mere 12% of early missionaries are sent home dishonorably. Such a small fraction, yet I feel that most men who come home are believed to be dishonorable until proven otherwise. Let's stop the madness.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the name of your Blog?
ReplyDeleteRight on, Samantha Shelley.
ReplyDeleteI think young women were encouraged in this way so that they would not cause young men to choose marriage over a mission. It has gotten out of hand, but it did start in the right place. From the prophet! We were told these things to encourage the young men in our lives to go. It was not a terrible thing at the time, it's just been misinterpreted all these years and blown up. My sister got engaged to a young man who hadn't gone on a mission and we were appalled because he wasn't ready to get married and said some things about it not being important and how one of the apostles didn't go on a mission because he was drafted. And I kept thinking 'that's not the same thing!' Finally, they prayed about it and he decided to go on a mission, but if she hadn't encouraged him and told him it was okay, he never would have gone. We need to encourage young men (and young women) to go! Not because of some checklist somewhere, but because the Lord needs them to serve. AND at the same time we need to be understanding of those who are unable to serve for ANY reason. Don't live in one camp or the other. BOTH are just fine!!!
ReplyDeleteThank you! Someone needed to say this! This kind of attitude is very prevalent at BYU- Idaho... I remember the label that was put on every guy who hadn't served, "Pre-Mi". It always bothered me. Girls avoided them like the plague. I happened to meet my husband there, who told me how much it bothered him before his mission and how his feelings were hurt because of the "Pre- Mi" Label and how girls treated him. I also recall over hearing conversations back in girl's camp about this. I remember one girl saying, "If a guy hasn't even served a mission, he's not even worth dating!" and it just made my stomach turn. Looking back, I wish I had the guts to chime in and set them straight. Yes, like you've said, missions are great life experiences and can be quite honorable, but to require it out of men you date is shallow and narrow- minded. I think they should just be a bonus.
ReplyDeleteAs an RM I completely agree with your blog. It can be really unfair to some people and its not right. I like some one that can cut through all the nonsense. Would you like to go on a date?
ReplyDeleteArianna, I thoroughly enjoyed your post. I believe that your post hit it right on the head. Many times we see members that do not go on missions and we categorize them into a group of lesser importance. When in reality it takes a lot of courage to say "a mission is not for me". I am a convert to the church, my beautiful wife that married me, knew that I was a convert and one that had not gone a mission, as we started dating prior to me joining the church. I learned a lot from her in regards to love and how to treat people. She is one of the most spiritual people that I know. With us having married early, neither one of us served a mission, but we have raised a family together and our older son served a mission. We know that one day we will serve a mission together as a married couple.
ReplyDeleteBut as your post says, girls should not discount boys because the are not RM's, my eternal companion did not discount me and because of her faithfulness and mine of course. I have served as a Bishop and a High Councilman. I am sure that many members back 28 years ago thought why is she marrying him he is not a member. But look at me now, and look at our marriage, we are as happy today as we were 28 years ago. We have 4 children that were sealed to us, two that are living and two that have passed the veil. But if she had not taken a chance on me where would we be? Continue to look for that "Temple Worthy Man" that will make you happy and will be the example to your children. Those are the men that make lifelong commitments to a woman and to their families. As a Bishop as I saw a few young men that were on their missions, because it was the thing to do, or because their families demanded it, but very few of them where there because their hearts dictated that they serve. That was the difference between a good missionary faithfully serving and one just being a bump on the log. Continue to look for that one special person, you will find him when you least expect it. You never know he may just be staring at you in the face now.
This is a fabulous piece! Thank you!
ReplyDeleteThis post was really well-written and I love that you were willing to address a topic that unfortunately shows up a LOT in the Church! Unfortunately as people, we are all imperfect and often find ourselves judging or looking down on others. I've noticed that this isn't just a phenomenon within the Church, but in all aspects of society. I wasn't raised around a lot of other other LDS people, so most of my friends growing up were not members of the church. Many of these non-LDS friends were also raised with marriage "ideals" such as their parents instilling in their heads that they had to marry a man with a college degree, with certain political views, who went to an Ivy league school, etc. A lot of these friends also really struggled when they fell in love with men who didn't quite match up to their family's "ideals." I think no matter our religious views, we can all learn a lot from the example of Jesus Christ in loving and accepting our brothers and sisters for where they are in their life journeys.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this wonderful blog post. It is so interesting to see the connotations that we as members of the Church associate with RMs. I served an honorable mission and I remember being in the office one day hearing about a certain elder going home early. The office sister said that going home early is actually a lot harder than staying on one's mission for the above reasons that every time your mission is brought up, the immense pain of all those people you think you disappointed wounds the soul even more. I understand those that go home for medical reasons or reasons outside their control (I had one elder in my mission go home to take care of his brother after his mother passed away), but for the most part, missionaries should try and complete their service. Nonetheless we treat these people as sons of perdition when really we should compare them to excommunicated members. Being sent home is an act of love and a part of the repentance process and whenever we condemn someone who did not serve or complete their missions but are striving for eternal life and are temple worthy, we prevent them from repenting and condemn ourselves.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean being on that side of the coin more than once.
My father isn't a member and I was baptized on my 12th birthday. Many of the young men and women in the church didn't care about me for one way or another. I was by myself.
I didn't go on a mission due to unforeseen circumstances, when I tried to build relationships with young women I was still looked on poorly.
Since then I've become inactive and sad. I know the truth of the Gospel and the teaching of Christ. I know that it's all true, but how can I walk back into a fold where I'll only be called a black sheep?
Thank you for your well-written cry to be more Christlike! I myself am a returned sister missionary and I learned very quickly on my mission that not all RMs are created equal. I don't know WHY I hadn't recognized it before the mission; probably because like many other young women, I assumed the title "RM" meant that someone was perfectly worthy, honest, faithful, strong in the gospel, etc. When Elder Oaks of the 12 came to visit my mission, he said something that REALLY changed my perspective on things. He talked about how growing up in the Church, we often view serving a mission as the ultimate goal to reach. It's like we associate serving a mission with automatic exaltation; if we can serve our 18- or 24- months, we've DONE IT. We've accomplished what we were sent here to earth to do and as a result, we can just cruise through the rest of our lives. As Elder Oaks pointed out, this is completely the wrong attitude! The mission is incredible important (and as has been mentioned in some of the comments, it IS a priesthood duty for the men); however, it is NOT a requirement to enter the kingdom of God. A mission is not the FINAL goal; rather, it is more of a stepping stone on our ultimate journey to become more like the Savior Jesus Christ. He talked about how sad he is when people put more emphasis on going on a mission than they do on the opportunity to go through the temple and make sacred covenants with God. He emphasized to us that those covenants are the MOST IMPORTANT thing.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with the things you pointed out. We should not be focused on marrying a "title;" rather, we need to be focused on marrying someone who is committed to giving his best to the Lord. After all, hopefully none of us would ever go out looking to marry an "elder's quorum president" or a "relief society president" solely because of their calling (although I suppose some people do this, too). Similarly, we shouldn't be looking for that title of "RM" because like I mentioned earlier, a title means nothing. RMs are not created equal. I certainly hope we are not shunning others or not giving them a chance because they don't hold that "title." In my current singles ward, some of the people I've spent the most time with and would consider my best friends in the ward are people that, for whatever reason, didn't serve missions. They still have strong testimonies, they still are incredible people, and they still are trying their hardest to do what God wants for them.
That being said, my ideal future husband IS someone who served an honorable mission and who after returning home, still has the desire to serve the Lord and progress spiritually. Because I am a returned missionary myself, I know firsthand how important a mission was to my spiritual progression and how much it prepared me for the rest of my life. I honestly can't imagine who I would be without it. I really want the person I marry to have experienced that as well. However, what is most important to me is where he is NOW in his spiritual progression. It's a lot less important WHERE he served, if he spoke a different language, how many baptisms he had, etc. What I care most about is what he learned on his mission, how he continues to apply those lessons in his life, if he is still looking for opportunities to serve, and if he is still seeking to have that close relationship with Heavenly Father that he developed on his mission. And honestly, these are things that I think ALL of us should be focused on, whether we have served a mission or even are members of the Church or not: serving others and seeking to have a stronger relationship with our Heavenly Father and with Jesus Christ.
I loved your opinion and well-written commentary! As an advisor to LDS 14-15 yr. old girls, I intend to bring this up in our lessons. Marriage is a sensitive subject for some, so many variables, and we all dream of "Happily Ever After". I agree that a temple worthy young man should be at the top of the list, mission or not.
ReplyDeleteI didn't read through all these posts, but feel the need to point out our own personal and moral responsibility to God. I saw a few people write about this post being an excuse for men and/or women to shrug off the responsibility to serve a mission, to which the viewing of this article is misinterpreted entirely and missionary service is misconstrued in its true purpose. For any young man or women to read this article and feel a new lack of motivation to serve a mission would mean a lack of true understanding as to why they would be serving, and in truth they would fit the stereotype addressed herein about missionary service being merely a checklist item. Serving a mission is a duty to God , it is a blessing and a opportunity of a lifetime and should be viewed as such. Don't allow yourself to make excuses here, if you feel so inclined to serve a mission then fulfill your moral responsibility to God but discover a better reason for doing it than to ensure a dating/marriage companion. Making excuses because of this article is useless for your progression, so stop finding excuses. Period. The brethren relay to us overarching principles and commandments from God, they do not account for every acception or individual circumstance. it is our responsibility to see how we personally apply those things in our own lives. Thank you for taking a more ground level approach to the topic of missionary service, and for helping your fellow members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints open up a conversation about a cultural practice that frequently hampers progression for both men and women.
ReplyDeleteI am really torn about your article. I believe that the point you are trying to make is that we need not be judgmental, with which I fully agree. I also agree that Temple worthiness should be a very high priority, if not the most important thing, on any girls' "list." There is, however, one other item that should also hold this very high priority, and that is a man that honors his priesthood and his priesthood responsibilities. Serving a mission IS a priesthood responsibility. You may correct me if I am wrong, but from my understanding, the target group of this article were men that were honorably released from serving a mission, or that came home early for physical, mental, emotional, etc reasons. If my understanding is correct, then I would feel girls/young women need to understand that these men HAVE fulfilled their priesthood responsibility and should not be ostracized.
ReplyDeleteAnother point that you made that I would like to emphasize is that a man (or woman) that serves a full time mission, does not automatically make him (or her) the man (or woman) that we often idolize RMs to be. Having served a full time mission myself I saw many disobedient missionaries. I have also since met many RMs that were obedient on their missions, but have now fallen into transgression. We still SHOULD NOT judge these RMs. We should befriend them and help them back to the straight and narrow path. I feel it important to point out that befriending someone does NOT mean that you have to date them. On the flip side, those that served honorable missions (please keep in mind that I consider those honorable released or that came home early to be in this group) and were changed from that experience to become more like our Savior are gems. These are the men that I hope the young women of the church are searching for and encouraging the young men to become.
As mentioned in a few of the comments repentance and allowing the atonement to work is the most beautiful thing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Lord lets all repent and we must too. If we don't let others repent, or if we don't let ourselves repent, then we really do not understand the atonement. Someone above mentioned that what really matters is where the person is now, and I agree. Sometimes when one reaches the point of worthiness they are needed to do other things to build the Kingdom of God. The answer will come through much prayer and fasting and revelation from God.
I also want to express my appreciation for the person who was ostracized, but continued going to Church because they realized that we go to Church for God and not for the people. Unfortunately we are all sinners and hypocrites at times, but for those that have left the church from being offended by a person(s) judgment, please allow us to repent as well.
I completely agree with this post. While it is serving a mission is an important duty for young LDS men, I feel like whether it happens, why it happens (or doesn't happen), and everything that goes with it, is very personal, and something that is between the individual and their Heavenly Father. If a young man does not serve a mission or does not complete his mission - for whatever reason - it doesn't mean they aren't worthy or even decent "dating material". If they have good character and are temple worthy, that is what matters. And even if they are not temple worthy, we should be a support and encouragement, not a slap in the face.
ReplyDeleteI have been meaning to write in my blog about this topic. When I was in young women's I too had the same thing on the very top of my list. I actually was waiting for a missionary and I was very serious about marrying him when he got home. His mission pushed me to be closer to the Savior but I soon met an amazing guy with great character BUT he hadn't gone on a mission. I was falling in love with him but holding onto my missionary who I was putting on a pedestal while he was gone. He was after all serving an International mission. I listened to the guy I was falling for talk about girls who would dump him once they would find out he didn't serve and girls who on first impression would overlook him for his roommates who had served missions. He became bitter towards the culture and gospel too. Soon becoming inactive. It is a devastating story. He eventually came back to the loving gospel but of course the pain didn't end there. When I met him he was living with 3 RMs.. but guess what one by one they stopped going to church and started going down bad paths. Soon the guy I was dating the non-RM was the only one attending church. Before we got married we had a meeting with our bishop who asked about his 3 RM roommates who hadn't been to church in months. Our bishop went on to tell us that he didn't serve a mission either and had suffered painful rejections but not to let that define him or anyone else. We were grateful to have his support. My boyfriend broke up with me because I couldn't make up my mind between him and my missionary. It was a month of spiritual journey and finding who I am and what I want to be. I finally had a tough choice made easy on a Christmas Eve. I chose this non RM who had been overlooked by girls over and over again.. we were married in the temple 6 months later. We have been happily married for a year. I have never regretted choosing my non RM, I'm actually grateful for the first time experiences I've been there for with him that he would've already done on a mission. His roommates now 18 months later, one married in the temple, one is still on the fence, and one is completely disowned the church. The title doesn't mean they will be perfect forever like we sometimes are led to believe. :)
ReplyDeleteThis is so so so true and good. I was the same way when I was a little kid and then I grew up and my brother couldn't serve a mission. My perspective completely changed. I love my brother and he's a great person and SO much better to spend time with than a ton of RMs that I know. Now, my priority is a upstanding, righteous, temple worthy man, not one that served a mission. If both of those things apply, that's great, but I realize now that going on a mission is not the only way to be eligible.
ReplyDeleteBeautiful words. I broke up with an RM whom I had waited for because we had grown apart and he came back changed... I was pretty much told I was giving in to the devil for that. I ultimately married a man who had never served a mission, had actually been inactive for 10 years to "figure out life on his own", but started going back to church and worked hard so we could be married in the temple. He is now a invaluable part of the Elders presidency, and loved and respected by all. He is the perfect man for me, and I haven't regretted my choice for a second. Lots of prayer led me to him, and even though at the time I didn't understand why, I decided to trust and take a chance. Best decision ever.
ReplyDeleteP.S. We also live in Logan :)
Thanks for these words. I'm now in my mid-40s, but there was a point where I was sealed in the temple and had a child with a woman who decided she no longer wanted to be with me and shacked up with a kid. A literal kid in his teens. Not 18 or 19. 15. Try being a 25 year old non-RM. Obese. Divorced. With a child. Yeah, it was a very fun time in my life.
ReplyDeletePlease understand, I'm not trying to say things were all her fault. They were not. I was (and continue to be) a very imperfect person. But it is easy to reach a point after so much rejection that you just stop trying and start to become what everyone thinks of you: damaged goods. Thank heaven my current wife saw past that to what I could be at a time I couldn't see it myself.
Posting anonymously to protect people from 20 year old perceptions that no longer hold true.
A lot of females on here write that they agree with these points, yet they married a return missionary. I find that funny. Taking off 'return missionary' from your ideal list is just an extreme statement to make a valid point: not all RM's are what their title insinuates they are. I get that. But really, having a husband who served a full-time mission isn't something you want anymore? If "outstanding character and temple worthiness" are the goals, you think there's a better shot at finding that with someone who didn't serve a mission than someone who did? I thought the prophet commanded every young man to serve a mission. Isn't serving a mission an act of faith and obedience, an act of "outstanding character?" Of course you shouldn't stop dating someone you feel is temple worthy merely because he didn't serve a mission. That's stupid. Anyone who does that is caught up in the bad side of mormon culture. But saying you shouldn't look for a return missionary has the same effect as saying you should: grouping everyone into one category. Which category would you prefer? If you had to choose your future husband from a pool of return missionaries or ones who didn't serve, which would you rather choose? In an ideal world, your husband did serve a mission, has outstanding character, and is temple worthy. It's ideal because that's what the prophet has commanded. It should stay on your list just as much if not more than dark hair.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI really like your thoughts on this. I agree. I want a husband who honors his priesthood, who is temple worthy, and has outstanding character. But I also want one who has tried to serve his Father faithfully and is keeping the commandments. I am not going to count out someone who isn't a return missionary and I am not going to choose based solely on the return missionary status. It is one item on a list of qualities that are important to me. So I am keeping my list and return missionary is still on the list and "taller than me" is still on the list too. If I don't get every single thing on that list, but I still find the right guy for me, I'm okay with that.
DeleteAmen, Amen, Amen. I am much older than you and feel the same about this matter. I am a woman who served a mission and my husband served as well. But the stigma that follows men who didn't serve, has always bothered me. Circumstances are varied and we are in no position to judge. When the eligible mission age lowered for women, I knew that this stigma that haunts men, will now follow the women of the Church. We have got to get "it" together and stop judging one another. You are a gifted writer. Thanks for sharing your thoughts...You are not alone.
ReplyDeleteWell written. I'll express a concern: Throughout your post, you mention young men who didn't go on mission "perhaps for medical reasons, or because they couldn't." I think you need to accept the fact that there are great guys who didn't go because, at the time, they didn't want to. Maybe between the time they were 18 and 25, they just didn't have a testimony. I've never understood why we put people into the status of what they were at that time... as though they could never progress.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, the same issue happens throughout life. I'm in my mid-50s, divorced. I constantly see guys who (literally) seduce women by "showing their temple recommend" and talking about all the positions they've held in the Church. I've also had women ask me what positions I've held. Some are just curious as to my experience and what I've learned, but many use it as a barometer of my personal righteousness ... which its not.
In fact, in a posting yesterday on a "divorced LDS singles" page, a middle-aged woman was discussing this very issue, or how men use their "Positions" to lure women (she called it "grooming")(and, if you study that behavior, it is surprisingly like rapist behavior). This is what I wrote (try to sense the irony here... I'm not bragging about myself... at all!)
"I was an RM. Stake family history center director. Ward mission leader. counselor to 3 bishops. Elders quorum president. High priest group leader. Young men's president. Scoutmaster. Gospel doctrine teacher. Temple veil worker.
So what. For the last 8 years I've been an Excommunicated adulterer who was stupid and destroyed a good family.
Next weekend I'll be a rebaptised guy. No calling. No priesthood. No temple blessings (yet). But on the right path and aware of pitfalls."
One more comment: Sisters, young and old, you HAVE the Holy Ghost! Don't let an RM status, or a Temple Recommend (yes, people lie to get them), or a Church calling blind you any more than you would let nice clothes, a cool car, a good job, or a nice head of hair fool you. Listen to the Spirit... and follow it. And think for YOURSELF!
When I was young and they told us to think about what we wanted in a future spouse and asked us to remember to write down that we wanted to marry a RM, they were NOT saying that all RMs are created equal and stating that this is the ONLY criteria that makes a young man worthy. It was simply a way for them to help us understand the importance of the spiritual side of choosing a spouse. And since going on a mission is actually now a commandment for every worthy young man, it is also a lot easier to see who might already have the spiritual qualities that we want in a spouse. A young man who could not go on a mission or returned early for family, illness, or other good reasons is just as worthy as a man who has returned from serving a 2 year mission honorably. A man who now chooses not to honor his priesthood is no longer a worthy man simply because he served an honorable mission. The RM banner is really supposed to remind us of a list of qualities that we want in our future spouse.
ReplyDeleteAny man who leaves the church because he feels that not serving a mission has made him unworthy in the eyes of his peers should consider that maybe the return missionary status is not the only thing that is making him unhappy in the church. Any young woman who refuses to see that a man who has not served as a missionary could be a worthy young man, who is desirable and loving and checks all those other boxes on her list, is not the kind of woman that a worthy young man should want to marry anyway. After all, if she doesn't listen to that still small voice about choosing a spouse and simply looks at a check list from her Young Women's classes, she isn't really the kind of woman who meets his check list of spiritual requirements. I am sorry that any young man should have to face that kind of rejection, but honestly he should consider it a narrow escape from a woman who is not his spiritual equal.
My friend who shared your post of Facebook probably feels a little irritated that people her age are wondering why her spouse isn't on a mission right now. The fact is, he should be on his mission right now. He didn't go on a mission because they made some poor choices that prevented him going. Now they are married and they have a baby at a time when their friends are just looking at starting that journey. They were not worthy to be married in the temple, he was not worthy to go on a mission. But the important part is that they are now. They have repented of those choices and are now worthy of the blessings of the temple. So perhaps it is this same feeling of unworthiness brought on by her peers misunderstanding that makes her feel it necessary to point out that a RM is not the only worthy kind of man out there.
My point, in all of this talk, is that you need to wipe away the dust on that old checklist of yours and looks at all the qualities on it. If it were a young man's list would you be able to check all the boxes to be his perfect spouse? Any woman who absolutely refuses to accept a man who does not meet every single point on the list (without regard to his worthiness, and without regard to the circumstances of his life) will find herself considerably lacking when faced with his list. We shouldn't weight any one item on the list more heavily than we rate our Heavenly Father's guidance. Throw away the list if you need to, but remember that the main point about picking a returned missionary is not actually that he was a missionary but that we know he is a worthy man, who honors his priesthood, and will be our spiritual equal in this life and in the next.
I agree. Let us rejoice in those men and women who have given so much time and effort into serving the Lord not make it sound like its not important to go on a mission.
DeleteI married a man who was not a returned missionary and the initial backlash I received from friends and family was incredibly disheartening. They couldn't look past that one thing and see the amazing person he really was. Now that we've been married two years my family absolutely adores him and are glad I married him, as am I. Missions are wonderful and invaluable, but I really wish there wasn't a need for every guy in the Church to ask him if he served a mission and then an awkward silence that follows when he says he didn't. We need to stop ostracizing non return missionaries from Mormon culture, whether intentionally or not.
ReplyDeleteThanks for keeping it real. Im a current missionary serving in the Utah Provo mission, what you have spoken of is kind of what i was thinking about as a missionary. What if a missionary gets medically released, what if he has to go home to repent and then come back or something like that, why should such a thing diminish a persons worth? of course it shouldn't. What we are, is not who we are. =) Glad to see someone can see with the eyes of our Heavenly Father.
ReplyDeleteI think that this is a great article for most but I hope that feelings such as these will not give boys an excuse not to serve. The commitment to serve a mission is one that should never be taken lightly and it a way to be completely obedient to the commandments of the lord. It is not easy. It is expensive but if a man can, he should. Not just if he wants, he should but if it is possible. The Lord has given us commandments and we are able to choose how perfectly you will obey. I do agree that using Return Missionary as a status is NOT appropriate. "When I was an AP..." means close to nothing to me. BUT in the coming days there will be tests of how obedient we will be to the commandments. You have forgotten to mention the AMAZING young men that have literally changes their lives and the lives of thousands of people serving their lord. Working SO HARD to be obedient. Let us rejoice in the service of so many, let us follow the prophet always and not make excuses for boys not to go.
ReplyDeletethis was beautifully written. i too was brought up in the time of 'RM or BUST' and it hurts me now that that is all i thought about. I dated a guy for 2-3 years and he postponed his mission. he simply wasn't ready and we fought over it a lot because when i was younger it was serve at 19 or else. i was oh so wrong and i'm sad that i may have hurt him. BUT we remained friends and he did serve a full-time mission. when he left my views had changed and i said the Heavenly Father "i will only married someone who isn't an RM if you tell me to". Well.... I married a man who is a convert to the church and did not serve a mission and he is better for me in all ways than the one who did. My husband serves the Lord in so many ways and he is always serving others. I want to teach my son(s) that a mission is important but you go when you are ready. if 18 or 19 is too early then wait until you are. You are the one that is making the commitment and you need to be ready. i want to teach any future daughters i have that RM is not key. there are so many other righteous qualities to have and to look to their father as an example. thank you so much for sharing this. it's something that has been near and dear to my heart for several years!! :)
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree with you more! I myself am the wife of a very faithful worthy priesthood holder who did not serve a mission. We felt exactly what you are talking about when we announced our engagement.... extreme judgment from those we thought were our friends and even family. Although we were to be married in the temple, fully worthy, all anyone could see was that my sweetheart chose not to serve a mission for reasons far too personal and very much unseen by those judging him. We still face this judgment, 10 years later whenever the "where did you serve your mission" question comes up. It is so sad and hurtful. As a mother now of 4 boys I hope with all my heart they choose to serve missions, but I will never judge them or be disappointed in them if that is not what they choose to do. As long as their goal is temple marraige and they are worthy for that, I will be one happy mama! :-) thank you for this post and your courage to speak out! I love the quote you gave from president Barrington! He was our stake president when we were in our married student ward and I love and admire him!
ReplyDeleteI'm a guy who had to come home early due to health problems. I served for 3 months, and came home this past August. Every time I've dated since then, the mission question comes up. Once I explain that I went but had to come home, I don't hear from the girl again. It's real and it's terrible. I wish people understood what you just said - the only thing that matters is that you're trying to live your life the best way you know how.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the post. There are, unfortunately, some young men and young women who serve a full-time mission but do not become missionaries (see Elder Bednar's talk, "Becoming a Missionary"). Conversely, there are many young men and young women who do NOT serve a full-time mission (because they weren't able or by their own choice) who have, in fact, become real missionaries and real disciples of Christ. We should all desire to marry someone who IS a missionary, not just someone who happened to serve a full-time mission. Of course, that being said, all ABLE young men are still righty encouraged to serve full time, and ABLE young women are rightly encouraged to consider serving full time as well. Good stuff. We need more considerate thinking like this in the church.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed this blog greatly, I am an RM from the England London South Mission having served from June 2002-2004. When a part of my mission the motivation wasn't serving The Lord, or more importantly my fellow men, but fear of the stigmatization of not only myself but my parents had I returned home early or not gone. I moved to Utah after returning home, and even though there isn't to many differences in church strength from Utah and Southeast Idaho, it was still a culture shock to say the very least. When I started dating that was one of the first topics that was broached, when I wanted to experiment and see if the women in the church were truly that shallow I would go so far as showing them my temple recommend but tell them that I hadn't served a mission, it surprised me how quickly they went running for the hills. I've been inactive for six years, yet it still surprises me that the women that I date that are faithful members knowing that I'm inactive still gravitate toward the RM status, while vilifying worthy non-mission serving priesthood and temple worthy brethren. I don't want to come across as bitter but I'm not surprised at the growing divorce rate of church members when this is part of the attitude.
ReplyDeleteOver time our world changes and we forget the value and worth of those things that are great in the sight of God.
ReplyDeleteIt's the things the missionary learns from his mission that will make him a better husband and father - obedience, selfless service, sacrifice, hard work, reliance on the Lord, spiritual maturity, living with a companion, compromise, independence (cutting the apron strings). Some guys come home never having learned those things, and some guys can learn them without a mission. It's the character development you should look for, not necessarily the time spent.
ReplyDeleteAsk yourself this question, how often do you praise the Savior for what he did for you? How often do you praise others for their success, accomplishments, awards, great speeches, or just doing a great job at work, in the home or doing a certain task? How often do we tell our parents, “Great job Dad, Great job Mom” or how about “What a great dinner Mom, way to go, you did awesome!”
ReplyDeleteWhy is it so difficult for mankind to give a compliment to another?
What causes a person to hesitate to give a compliment or praise another? Why is our society, our world become a world of looking for all the negative aspects of people’s lives and picking them out. Yet on the other hand we have people and groups shout that we should accept all people and love them, even chastising others by saying the words “Be more Christ Like” as though the Savior never said, “Where art though accusers Women? Go and sin no more” Are we not commanded to be perfect, even as Christ was perfect? Are we not commanded to strive for perfection and set goals to obtain such a place? Did Christ not forgive the Women, but then say “Sin no more” signifying that we must become perfect in him.
Does being Christ Like mean we accept the sinner into our lives, into our home and praise the sinner for their sins? No, that’s not what being Christ like means at all, but so many get confused and jump on that band wagon and begin calling good-evil and evil-good. We are seeing with many several issues that are moral issues, yet people are trying to make them a political issue. (Another book)
Before you or I get confused about what is good and what is evil, because clearly that is what Satan is doing today in our society, confusing the children of men, let me attempt to stop you in your tracks right now.
First, “Praise the man” Can we all attempt to value and appreciate those who do keep the commandments, who do stay on the straight and narrow, who do serve and help others?
Look, there is an ideal world, and actually when Satan is bound, we will live in it. So, why strive for anything else? That doesn’t mean at the expense of someone else we lift ourselves up, meaning we should never put down or hurt others to lift ourselves. As I have stated we should look to the Lord as a perfect example of how to live, and praise him and follow him. Upon doing so, should we not praise those who do? I know I sure do every time I watch General Conference. What is so wrong for rejoicing within the spirit of God and celebrating the cause of great accomplishments or work ethics, even inside the gospel or outside?
Regarding the topics of RM’s let me tie this in as an example...Instead of shouting from the mountain tops that’s it’s Ok to go against the Lord in your search for an eternal companion by dating those who did not go on a mission and or who came home early because of sins that were not taken care of, why not encourage all young men to be worthy to return with honor from a mission and ask all young women to help sustain the same cause. Why not praise the young men and women who are living lives on a path to an honorable return from a mission and encourage all to pursue such a task as opposed to open a door of allowance of failure or even an acceptance to be less than what one can obtain? Of course we love those who come home early, of course the Lord has set up his kingdom on behalf of all men to come unto him and return to our heavily father. For this cause our goals are set high, so that when we fail, which we will, we can be lifted up. Do not accept anything less than the greatest of all things that the Father has in store for you.
ReplyDeleteWe should not mock, put down or think less of those who are not worthy to serve a mission, yet we council with them, help them get on the right path so they can return with honor. It is a process to return to live with our heavily father, the bar is set with him; we must not lower the bar because we fail during our test of life here on earth. The reality is even if we attempt to lower the bar, it’s never going to be lowered by the Lord, and our lowering of the bar is a mere smoke screen and deceitful trap Satan uses to make us feel we are on the right path. Satan doesn’t want the children of God to return with him, so he will cause all men to feel Gods bar is too high, not obtainable. Let me correct you by saying, do not accept anything less than a returned missionary because when Satan is bound, all will have that status! The question is will you be there? Will you be the one who accepted that challenge, did you pass the test, did you hold strong to the iron rod?
Key note: Stay strong in your commitments and goals to marry a worthy RM in the temple, and remember you may be the instrument in the Lords hands to bring a soul unto him, perhaps even your spouse. In your search you may be worthy insomuch that you become a great missionary to the one who came home early and or the person who is of another faith. Just because you set your goal to date only a RM doesn’t mean it can’t happen by dating the person you run into who is visiting the temple grounds investigating the church. When you have your sights and goals on the highest degrees of Gods kingdom all things are possible. But do not lower your sights hoping to provide compassion on those who have fallen or who have lost the grip of the iron rod. Keep your sights, your goals, your desires where the Lord and his Prophets have blessed you with great knowledge, wisdom and love to have them be set; for this is where your father in heaven will be able to accomplish his desire for all men to have immortality and eternal life with him.
Thank you! You have said my thoughts exactly!
DeleteBrilliant! So many members are lowering the bar convincing themselves that it is good and right. The saints did not leave their families and come across the plains to defend a Gospel just so that today's members could translate for themselves how to live it. I cringed throughout this article and found that those who read this will find excuses not to serve the Lord. What a shame. We should love, respect and understand everyone, but we should also expect what Jesus has commanded us. Well said.
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DeleteThank you so very much! We have experienced this very situation in our family and it has broken our hearts to watch our son struggle! We love him so and are very proud of the man he is. Love one another!! Thanks for sharing this!
ReplyDeleteMy husband of 6 years came home from his mission after a year - a "release of circumstance" or so it was called. I can say without a doubt that he is SUCH a better man than all of the RMs I dated before him, but I can't even tell you how much he struggled with the fact that he was "sent home" even if it wasn't dishonorable for YEARS after the fact. He never lost his temple recommend, and the church has always been central to his life. It wasn't until he had been EQP in our ward for over a year that he finally let it go - and that was 5 1/2 years after the fact. He still feels like there is a stigma that he didn't serve the full two years - but let me tell you that if you tell someone who isn't a member of the church that he went on a mission trip to inner city chicago for a year, they are incredibly impressed and don't knock him for not serving longer.
ReplyDeleteIt is crazy to me that we claim to believe in the atonement, and then if anyone has had a sin or a a mistake, we shun them. If anything, those who have gone though the repentance process know the Savior better and more intimately than those who haven't.
Hmmm…interesting article, although, in my opinion, terribly misguided. If you take “returned missionary” off the list because there are those who return less than honorable, then you may as well take “member of the Church” off your list because there are those who are less than honorable. A truly honorable returned missionary is temple worthy, he is deeply devoted to the gospel, he has grown tremendously from his two year sacrifice, both spiritually and emotionally. He has matured and returned home a man…who honors his Priesthood and the covenants he has made. To suggest “returned missionary” should be removed from the list is to malign those who truly did serve honorably. And there are thousands and tens of thousands in that category. To remove that from your list is to admit you cannot tell the difference between the missionary who served honorably and is totally worthy of your love and the one who is not. One of the questions in the temple recommend interview has to do with sustaining the prophet…the very prophet who has said it is a commandment for all worthy, able young men to serve full time missions. How can a young man blatantly disregard that command and still be worthy of your love. True, one can repent afterwards and be totally worthy to enter the temple, but there are long lasting consequences to choices we make early in life. One day this father may be trying desperately to have his son receive the tremendous blessings available through serving a full time mission, but then has the choice he made so many years ago thrown back in his face. The Lord wants his worthy young men (and in many cases young women) to serve in his army of missionaries. To present the concept of “oh its fine, maybe even better, if he doesn’t serve in this way” is very misguided. Again, to suggest a full time mission is not vital because sometimes that “status” is abused is akin to suggesting the Church is not vital because of those who dishonor their covenants. This article on this blog seems to be counterproductive to the building of the Kingdom and could indeed sway many worthy, noble young people from showing their devotion to the Lord by serving a full time mission. Just one man’s opinion.
ReplyDeleteThis is so right on! This blog post has been bugging me ever since I read it. So I'm glad somebody found the words I've been thinking. Her blog post is very very misguided and frustrating.
DeleteGreat response. I too found this article very disappointing. I enjoyed your analogy --“to suggest a full time mission is not vital because sometimes that “status” is abused is akin to suggesting the Church is not vital because of those who dishonor their covenants."
DeleteThe author has the right to her own opinion, and she can choose to marry whomever she'd like, but I dislike the way she paraphrased President Uchtdorf's talk to preach her own misguided views. I'm sick of people playing the WWJD card, when clearly he would ask and has asked (not just asked but commanded) that they go on missions.
It sounds like the young sisters are focusing on the wrong principle, Its not about serving a mission or not, its about being a worthy person. There are many young men that are worthy to take any bride to the temple who haven't served and you young women are missing out on some great young men. I served a mission for me not for the RM stamp. I served in the England Birmingham Mission 1980-82. married and divorced, went inactive for nine years, meet a young lady in a night club, got married, she joined the church seven years later and she reactivated me and have been happy for the past twenty one years.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree!
ReplyDeleteArianna, you do have a gift with words and expressing clear thoughts about the importance of Christ-like love and being non-judgmental towards our fellow man. Thank you. The only think that I thought that was missing from your well-written blog post was the fact that the Church is a proselytizing church. We send missionaries out into the world to bring others unto Christ because of the "Good News" of His Gospel. Some of those converts may never have had the opportunity to serve a mission due to age or financial issues,yet they are worthy members of the Church and Christ-like in word and deed. You are correct in saying that it is far more important to look on the heart of the young man and his honorable intentions towards a young woman as well as his desire to serve His Father in Heaven in a righteous and loving manner. Again, thank you, for your thoughtful words of love and compassion.
ReplyDeleteThis seriously made me cry so much! Thank you for this! It's about time this came to the surface! I have been at college outside of Utah this last year and I can't tell you how many times I felt so much more respect from non-members or even not return missionaries. And I know so many guys that struggle with this. One of my best friends was planning on going on a mission and was just about to turn in his papers when he said he felt a prompting clear as day that he should stay home and he has a bigger mission here. Later to find out he had helped convert his family and cousins to the gospel and was a huge inspiration to many people. But that isn't enough. Girls still toss him aside when they find out he didn't go. Thank you so much for this! :)
ReplyDeleteAri,
ReplyDeleteI wish I could have read this article when I was 20! I appreciate that you can realize that some times the focus can get a little off course.
You seem like a really sweet girl and I appreciate your time to write this blog! Best wishes to you! :)
Thank you Arianna for writing this post. It was very beautifully written and I'm glad there are young women out there that share the same opinion that you do. If you or anybody else would like to read my blog you may. I am someone who came home from their mission early. I haven't shared it with anybody besides the people that I know. I'm not sharing it to get my views up or earn money or anything of the sort. I wrote it in hopes to help others and learn from my experience. There is only one post. dustinjamesarmstrong.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteI believe you shouldn't judge another person. That is not for us to decide. I also am a strong advocate that we should follow the Prophets teaching and that is every 'WORTHY" young man should serve a mission. So we can exclude "UN"-worthy young men. So, if you have a young man that didn't serve but was worthy, can you see why finding an RM is important. I'm not saying they are bad and I really don't care, because it isn't for me to decide their fate. Do you want to be with someone for eternity that doesn't follow the prophet? If you believe the Church is true than wouldn't you want someone that follows those teachings? Again, I am not judging! I am just stating the facts! I did serve a mission, and I did get married in the Temple. Am I perfect? Absolutely NOT, but I promise you this. I would not be where I am today, spiritually, mentally, and as successful as I am today if I didn't serve a mission. So the culture that the Church has is not one that ridicules or judges or despises. That is human flaw. But to set aside the RM on your checklist goes against what the Prophet has commanded a young man should do. So you can make yourself feel better by thinking your doing yourself a favor, but you really aren't. I am telling you this out of love. I know that their is only one person that is perfect, and that is our Savior Jesus Christ. Just ask yourself one thing. What would the Savior have you do. Maybe that is to marry someone that didn't serve. The Spirit will tell you what you should do, but if you are a worthy young man, What would the Savior want you to do?
ReplyDeleteIn the article you used most often the reason for not serving as medical. I think that this experience takes compassion even a step further: My husband served for three months and then chose to come home to get some spiritual things in his life in order. The following months and years were hard and I had to get over to "RM" thing too when I decided to marry him...but I would rather be married to someone who did the right thing by repenting than someone who served a full two years with unworthily. D&C 18:13 And how great is his joy in the soul that repenteth! This life is not about being perfect...it is about repenting.
ReplyDelete“Do not take the chance of dating members who are untrained and faithless. A girl may say, "Oh, I do not intend to marry this person. It is just a 'fun' date." But one cannot afford to take a chance on falling in love with someone who may never accept the gospel. ” -Spencer W. Kimball
ReplyDeleteIf a young man CHOOSES to NOT serve a mission, fulfill a commandment of God, nor follow through with a covenant he made at baptism....why would a worthy daughter of God choose to date/marry him? If he already has a record of disregarding sacred covenants and breaking commandments, why should this daughter of God choose to make new covenants with him?
The average marriage age of individuals in the church is 25 yrs. old. A young man can leave on a mission until he reaches the age of 29. Every young man is given a 11 year window for serving the Lord and fulfilling this covenant/commandment. If a young woman meets a young man that is under the age of 29 who has not served a mission, why not dismiss him? Dating or marrying him would prevent him from fulfilling this covenant with the Lord. If the young man says he chose not to serve a mission and still resides withing that 11 year window, why would a faithful young woman choose to date/marry someone who is currently disobeying a covenant/commandment of the Lord.
People keep bringing up the atonement and how it is not our place to judge. There is a difference between judging and passing judgement. Its is a young woman's prerogative to judge whether any young man is a worth suitor. "Ye shall know them by their fruits."
It is a young woman's right to choose whether or not she dates a young man who has CHOSEN not to serve a mission. Don't turn this around and condemn the young women who have stuck to their goals and are striving to find a worthy companions out to be the the problem.
A girl shouldn't "scratch "marry an RM" off the list," simply because there are good young me who haven't served missions.
I agree completely!
DeleteWe had a Stake Priesthood Leadership Meeting early yesterday morning where Bishoprics, YM Presidencies and YM Class Presidencies broke out into a session apart from everyone else. The very point the counselor in the Stake Presidency made in that session is that when we focus on the goal for young men is to serve a mission, we are MISSING the REAL target. He emphasized the REAL goal is to repent in life so that Christ's atonement can save us. He pointed out a mission can be a helpful step to get there, and oft-times is, but it's NOT a requirement for gaining Salvation. A mission can help us develop skills of service and the ability to love others unconditionally, and give us a greater knowledge of the Gospel, but there should be no level of "pride" gained from being an "RM". There is nothing "sanctifying" about a mission, other than giving each one of us the opportunity to come to know Christ better, and to share that knowledge with others. I have two sons that came home early from missions for other than health reasons. One was allowed to finish in a different mission, the other never went back. Both have temple marriages and are "fighting the daily battles" we're all faced with in raising families in a world that sells sin as sugar. At the final judgment, Christ will read our heart...not our resume'.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit I didn't read the whole post so correct me if I'm wrong but I'd like to understand something. What is the reason for these young men you are talking about? Because yes I know there are some people who can't serve a mission due to health/medical reasons. But remember the prophet did say "every young man must serve a mission". With that said you're right we shouldn't be judging people for there decisions to not serve, we should love everyone. But as for me I would not marry a man who wasn't willing to sacrifice two years for something that is the most important thing in the world to me, this Gospel, and something the prophet has asked him to do, unless their reason is medical. But now days the church has so many more opportunities for those who can't fulfill a full-time mission. So I'd love to hear from those who are for your view. Enlighten me.
ReplyDeleteSierra
washingtontomexico.blogspot.com
Sierra, While I think your heart is in a good place I think you missed the point of the post. Just because someone served a mission doesn't make them a good person, and just because someone didn't serve a mission doesn't mean they are a bad person. My reason for not serving a mission was not medical. At the age of 19 all of my friends were leaving and I felt left out but was not worthy to go, due to pressure from the ward and my family I put my papers in and went to the MTC without clearing up my issues. While in the MTC I felt guilty and tried to clear everything up while I was in the MTC and then they sent me home. A year later I tried to go out again and my Stake President said that he talked with the bretheren in Salt Lake and I was not to go back out. I don't know what more I could have done to right the wrong. I have tried to live worthily since then, but do you mean to say that I should be continually punished for a mistake I made 10 years ago. If Heavenly Father can forgive me, why can't the members of his church?
DeleteThis has been an ongoing theme in my life. I have seriously dated several girls and when this subject comes up it is always an issue for them. Even if they don't necessarily see that fact that I didn't complete my mission as a huge issue, their family usually does. Even in my current relationship my girlfriend's family dosen't think I will be a good member because I didn't complete my mission. I went out when I was 19 and wasn't worthy, I cleared things up and tried to go back out and they said no, what more could I have done. I am tired of paying for a mistake that I made 10 years ago. Meanwhile I see young men who I know severed unworthily and came home and found someone to marry, or worse yet end up having an affair and getting divorced, but no one seemed to have a problem with that young man before the marriage because he carried the title of RM. It becomes absolutely taxing to say the least.
ReplyDeleteI gave a talk in Sacrament meeting with a somewhat similar message.
ReplyDeletehttp://scripturalteachings.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/missionary-preparation-talk/
The whole i am not going to marry a RM thing makes me sad, its like if the girl is saying that the guy is a bad guy for not going on a mission
ReplyDeleteWow, I almost feel like I don't need to respond to this cause so many people already did. I just wanted to say that your post has made it to the Danish LDS community and I couldn't agree more. I served a mission in Paris 5 years ago and am married to an RM. Needless to say, I know for a fact that missions can change lives and build deep testimonies. I have served around missionaries who were great examples, leaders and priesthood holders. I've also served around Elders who did not honor their callings and wasted a lot of mission-time on non-mission related things. If seen both kinds of missionaries. Having served a mission myself really opened up my eyes to the fact that having "returned with Honour" does not mean you're a person who honoured your calling. It does not mean you understand the Gospel fully or that you will be a perfect future spouse. Girls who look for and date RMs really need to learn to see through the label (like you say) and figure out the true nature of whomever they're dating.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I have people in my circle of friends who have not served for various reasons. There are more ways to serve than on a mission - and frankly, I could come up with so many examples of men who have not served, but who spend a lot of their time and efforts honouring their priesthood callings, serving their families and people around them. They understand the Gospel and it's principles. Some of them want to serve missions later on with their spouses.
I do believe you're blessed for serving and I believe there's a reason that all worhty men are asked to serve missions. You learn, grow and develop in ways and at a speed you cannot possible do in "real life". The church needs strong leaders and priesthood holders with strong testimonies. No doubt about it. But there is no need for us to judge those who do not to serve or who cannot serve. You're so spot on! Thank you.
Thank you for the great article! My wife posted this in a response to one of her friends who, sad to say, has that unrealistic expectation. She even told us that she met "the most PERFECT guy" but because he wasn't a member, "I cut ALL ties and haven't talked to him since." It made me upset because out of all of the guys she has dated, most of the jerks are RMs. It is true that they use the title as an ice breaker with ladies in Utah. Outside of this state (I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, PA. Parents are converts and I was the first one to serve a mission), if you told some random girl that you asked on a date that you served a mission, they could care less. All that matters is if you treat them with love and respect and don't try to take advantage with them since you "broke down the barrier" of being an RM. All I know is if my daughter had to pick between an RM and a non RM or a non member, I would ask her one question "who treats you like the princess that you are?" Who ever treats her with more respect and love wins in my book.
ReplyDeleteYes, judging is bad. Also, serving a mission, as you stated, is still a good and desirable quality. And seems essential for boys following God's commandments. Although, of course, exceptions apply: medical reasons, compelled military service, political reasons beyond our control, converts to the church after missionary serving age, Alma the Younger type who had a giant change of heart, etcetera. I would still keep it on "the list" unless it fits a narrowly tailored exception. I wanted to play ball with my friends or play video games would not qualify in my book. Checklists are good insofar as they guide us, but really should not be written in stone anyway. And you're right that temple worthy is a more valuable than RM. As a boy, dating a girl who is a RM is a big plus, but not a deal breaker for sure. Thanks for your insights!
ReplyDeletePresident Thomas S. Monson said: “We affirm that missionary work is a priesthood duty—and we encourage all young men who are worthy and who are physically able and mentally capable to respond to the call to serve. Many young women also serve, but they are not under the same mandate to serve as are the young men. We assure the young sisters of the Church, however, that they make a valuable contribution as missionaries, and we welcome their service.” (Thomas S. Monson, "Welcome to Conference," Liahona, November 2012, 4).
ReplyDeleteI saw many people mention that "All young men should serve a mission." However, If you read what President Monson said, we often leave out the part about, "physically and mentally capable". Getting sick is not a weakness of your faith, it is called life. Great post and great attitude.
I only date outside of the church because of this. People need to realize the difference between the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ and the CHURCH of Jesus Christ. They are two different things. I never served a mission, because my stake president at the time thought I was different because I did not play sports in high school.
ReplyDeleteOne, they are one in the same. Two, if you chose to not serve a mission, neglecting a commandment of God, because of your misguided belief of someone else's opinion of you, that is your issue, not your stake presidents. Step up and take responsibility for you actions. If you don't believe it matters whether or not you serve a mission, that's your deal, but don't blame your inaction on someone else's opinion.
DeleteComments like this make me laugh at the thought that there are so many disoriented people agreeing with this blog post. Essentially you are all are saying, "I believe in the church... but not all of it. Only the parts I want to believe in, the easy stuff that doesn't require a lot of effort and if you disagree with me you are judging."
Yes, I agree with you on this one. The people agreeing to this post are hilariously misguided.
DeleteRM should stand for a Righteous Man
ReplyDeleteI think the key point to get across is to look for a man that has the QUALITIES you would want (that are hopefully found in return missionaries but aren't always, and likewise are often-times found in men who aren't RM's) and let go of the details. My husband is not a return missionary. Both of us were wayward in our youth. We have since been sealed in the temple and have remained active. I will say there are qualities he is lacking that serving a mission may have allowed him to develop. All the same, there are other ways to develop those qualities. Because of my background, many of the RM's I dated wouldn't consider marriage. They missed out on a good thing. :)
ReplyDeleteAs a comment to your picture above "2) tell that to President Monson." I'm assuming you are trying to say President Monson never served a mission. President Monson served as a mission president from 1959 to 1962 in Canada. He has also dedicated his life to the church and has been serving a life long mission since 1963 when he was called to be an Apostle.
ReplyDeleteIts sad that you use this great man as a means to push your unrighteous agenda.
Don't call this an unrighteous agenda. She's saying that serving a mission doesn't automatically make you righteous and perfect for marriage and that not serving a mission doesn't automatically make you unrighteous. That' how we're supposed to think. Missions are amazing and vital, we should by all means serve missions, but it's not a saving ordinance or a requirement for the Celestial kingdom and there's a reason for that.
DeleteAttempting to convince others that the dedication of a two year mission holds little to no value and then criticizing young women who seek companions with similar goals, missions, and values.... is an unrighteous agenda. Young men in the church (18-28) are under a commandment to serve a mission. If they choose not to serve a mission and are still within this age range, why shouldn't a worthy young woman be able to shy away from dating them without being judged? They are directly disobeying a commandment of God. Loudly proclaiming that their priorities are greater than God's. A young woman can date and marry whomever she likes.
DeleteAre not all church members missionarys no matter if on our door step in the work place or in the mission feild. A few of my friends sons have servred missions some doing the full two years some not the two years i look up to all these fine young men. We all have our reasons as to why we do what we do and no one should judge us. The lady that posted at the very start well done you for veiwing your story
ReplyDeleteI appreciated this article. I went on a mission and came home after 18 months due to a broken leg. After coming home, I didn't make much of an effort to date members; not because of any particular bias or because they wouldn't have me, but because where I come from there weren't many options. That said, I observed plenty of this kind of behavior before my mission when I attended a church college, and after my mission I heard about it from friends who had the kinds of experiences you describe. I know it was incredibly unpleasant for them to be continually passed over due to such a silly convention. But, I don't really blame the YSA women who espouse this stuff; they've been programmed to think that way their entire lives. It's difficult (and, they would probably argue, blasphemous) for them to see a different view as plausible.
ReplyDeleteIt's unfortunate, but I've found that most humans (particularly humans with deep religious convictions) have trouble accepting and applying nuance to their decision-making. It is simply so much easier to have a checklist and mark off "yes" and "no" than it is to think critically about the underlying subject matter. Checklists are easy to understand and apply. Checklists from God are even better, because they're divine checklists. The person is completely free from having to think at all. The most righteous decision has already been made for them. It's great, if that's what you want or if it's all you can handle. But, those kinds of lists will inevitably leave decent people on the wrong side of the ledger. For the checklist-lover, this is not a problem, because falling on the wrong side of a divine checklist is simply an indication that something was "wrong" with that person, which makes him or her of no further consequence. It just sucks for the person who was left out.
It is much more difficult to apply a "worthiness" standard to such a decision, when the "RM" label is such a handy proxy. Changing entrenched dogma is even harder. But, I applaud you for making the effort. For my part, I left all of this nonsense behind. I have been inactive for many years. Not because of how members act; that's too petty. If the church is what it purports to be, how other members live their lives is irrelevant to one's personal salvation. When I was active, I basically ignored the ridiculousness of my fellow travelers. It can be hard though, so I empathize.
In any event, this was an excellent read. Thanks again.
I think the man's attitude is also extremely important. If he was worthy and able to serve, but chose not to just because he didn't care enough, and still maintains that attitude of apathy, this could be a serious warning sign that he perhaps does not take his priesthood responsibilities seriously. (If he has since had a change of heart and wishes he had gone, that's a different story). I think it is important for him to not only be worthy of a temple recommend, but to have an attitude of commitment to the gospel. I agree with a lot of the points made in this article though. Where you've been is not as important as where you're going, and it would be a shame for a girl to pass up Mr. Right because she is so focused on finding Mr. Perfect (the guy who meets her checklist requirements, such as being an RM).
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely beautiful. Well said and I think everyone needs to hear this.
ReplyDeleteI agree totally and nowhere does it say in the scriptures that you cannot go to the celestial kingdom unless you've gone on a mission. I think we've gone way too far judging people. What happened to praying and asking to be guided to the person we should marry?
ReplyDeleteThis is something I definitely believe in and preach to the youth I work with. There are plenty of RM's I would never want my daughters marrying. Being an RM is not what's important, though it can be an indicator that he may have what is important. What's important is what you pointed out, that they are temple worthy--that they have given their lives to God. It doesn't matter who someone was in the past, it matters who they are now, so even if they didn't go on a mission because they were unworthy, or chose not to go, as long as they have repented of that we must forgive and forget just like God has. What makes someone marriage material is not who they were when they were 19, but who they are now.
ReplyDeleteNow, I did serve a mission and it was the greatest experience for my life. I think one reason why we preach marrying a RM so much is to help motivate the young men to serve, but I don't think that is the best form of motivation; the desire should come from within the missionary, not from the outside.